Music Books & Videos FAQs

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:42:49 EST
Subject: octave mandolin tunng

A quick question:
When using a Korg CA-30 tuner to tune an octave mandolin, is the hurtz supposed to be set at 440?
Thanks.

Brian Davey

Greetings Brian,

Yes, the 440 represents A at concert pitch...what is considered the current industry standard for Western Music...your calibration, on your Korg, can be used to raise the concert slightly for playing situations...some symphonies for instance will tune above concert for more vibrancy and better projection acoustically.

Here's a great treatise on it:

Standard Pitch Or Concert Pitch For Pianos

What is Standard Pitch or Concert Pitch and why do we need it? Standard Pitch is a universal frequency or note that all instruments are set to. Today's standard pitch is A440 or C523.3 and this concert pitch enables musicians to play instruments together in harmony. A form of standard pitch has been around ever since two individuals wished to play two instruments together or sing to an instrument. A tuning fork is normally used to set the pitch. However, in the passt, pitch pipes have been used and today electronic tuning forks are also used but the most common is the tuning fork. The tuning fork was invented by John Shore in 1711 and it has a pitch of A423.5. He was the Sergeant trumpeter to the Court and also lutenist in the Chapel Royal.

Of course, once you have your "A" or "C" set to a pitch, the rest of the instrument will have to be tuned. A scale is set in the middle and this scale also determines the pitch of all the twelve notes in the octave. The most common used to day is Equal Temperament. This sets the pitches of the twelve notes so that the player can play the instrument in all keys by dividing the roughness equally among the twelve notes. The roughness is called the "Wolf". This term may have come about because if the "Wolf" is not set right the instrument will be howling out of tune. .

Like standard pitch A440, Equal Temperament is not the only scale that has been used. Just Intonation was used in 136 AD and it was Ptolemy who started its use. Meantone was perfected by Salinas in 1577 AD. Equal Temperament was proposed by Aristoxenus, a pupil of Aristotle and was in use in China for some centuries before. It would seem that Equal Temperament was used in North Germany, as early as 1690. In 1842 The Organ of St Nicholas, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, was tuned to Equal Temperament and this is believed to be the first Organ to be tuned in Equal Temperament in England for a concert. Willis the organ builder did not use Equal Temperament until 1854. However, 1846 Walter Broadwood directed Mr.Hipkins the head piano tuner at Broadwoods to instruct their tuners in the use of Equal Temperament. Mr.Hipkins used two tuning forks one for Meantone and one for equal temperament (Meantone) A433.5 (Equal) A436.0. Meantone was the most common scale used at that time see Ed Foot for more insight in the use of Meantone on to-days pianos.

Musicians are not the only individuals to use pitch. In 583 BC, a Greek philosopher called Pythagorus was making use of the monochord. This device is simply a sound box with a single string stretched over a movable bridge, the position of which can be determined by a scale marked on the sound box. This was more of a scientific instrument than a musical one. Before this time, the Egyptians and Greeks made use of the monochord. For 5000 years, it was used to make intricate mathematical calculations. The ratio of intervals and many other facts that make up the fundamentals of acoustic science were discovered by the use of the monochord. Pythagorus used a pitch of 256Hz on his monochord. The study of Mathematics was known as Philosophy in the time of Plato.

The use of modern science to measure pitch accuracy in Hzs was around 1834 when a group of distinguished German physicists using a mechanical stroboscopic device found that the pitch of the tuning fork that they were testing was at A440 Hz. Of course, then the unit was not called Hz it was cps - cycles per second.

Scholars who have studied historical instruments claim that "A" in the 17th century possibly ranged from 373.7 Hz to 402.9 Hz. The following is an (incomplete) list of pitches which come from various sources:-
1640 Vienna Franciscan Organ A457.6
1699 Paris Opera the note A 404
1711 John Shore, who invented the tuning fork, of which one still exists today, with a pitch of A 423.5
1780 Stines, for Mozart A421
1780 Organ-builder Schulz A421.3
1714 Strasbourg Cathedral organ A391
1722 Dresden's chief R C church organ A415
1759 Trinity College Cambridge organ A 309
1762 Stringed instruments at Hamburg A 405
1772 Gottfried Silbermann built the organ in the main R.C. church in Dresden, which had a pitch of A 415 at the time.
1780 Organ-builder Schulz A 421.3
1780 Stein's tuning fork A422.6
1751 Handel's own Fork A422.5
1800 Broadwood's C fork 505.7, which is about half a semitone lower than that of today
1811 Paris Grand Opera A 427
1812 Paris Conservatoire A440, as modern pitch
1813 George Smart adopted for the Philharmonic Society the pitch of A 423.3
1820 Westminster Abbey organ and possibly Paris comic Opera used a pitch of A 422.5
1828 Philharmonic Society A 440
1834 Vienna Opera A 436.5
1835 Wolfels piano maker A443
1836 Pleyel's Pianos A446
1846 Philharmonic pitch was A452.5 (very high) which lasted till 1854
1846 Mr Hipkins piano tuner (Meantone) A433.5 (Equal) A436.0
1849 Broadwood's medium pitch was A 445.9 which lasted till 1854
1858 New Philharmonic pitch C522
1860 Cramer's Piano makers of London A448.4
1862 Dresden Opera A 440
1871 Covent Garden Opera House A 440
1877 Collard's piano Maker standard pitch was A 449.9
1877 St Paul Cathedral organ A446.6
1877 Chappell Pianos A455.9
1877 Mr Hipkins piano tuner A448.8
1878 Her Majesty's Organ A436.1
1878 Vienna Opera A447
1879 Covent Garden Opera A450
1879 Erard's factory fork 455.3
1879 Steinways of England A 454.
1879 British Army regulation pitch for woodwind A451.9
1880 Brinsmead, Broadwood, Erard apparently used a pitch of A455.3,
1880 Steinways were possibly using a pitch of A436. According to Steinways NY, 1880 is right around the time they switched from three piece rims to the continuous rim that is used today. So it is unlikely the pitch was any higher before 1880 yet Steinways London had a fork A 454.7
1885 In Vienna a pitch of 435.4 was adopted at a temperature of 59% Fahrenheit for A
1885 At an international exhibition of inventions and music in London a pitch of A452 was adopted
1896 Philharmonic pitch A439, giving C522
1925 on the 11th of June the American music industry adopted A440
1936 American Standards Association adopted A440
1939 At an international conference A440 was adopted.

The pitch of A440 has remained since 1939. Pitches have risen a little, particularly in Eastern European countries, which often wish pianos to be tuned to A 444 or even a bit above. Some concert halls in the UK and European countries have two pianos on site. One tuned to A440 and one tuned to A 444. This is to keep the pianos stable, as constantly raising and lowering the pitch is not good for the piano; it makes it hard for the piano tuner to make the tuning stable.
A full list of theoretical frequencies of all the notes on a piano tuned to A440 theoretical frequencies

Barrie Heaton Dip A.W.V.H, M.A.B.P.T, F.I.M.T, C.G.L.I,
© copyright 1998 - 2002
Acknowledgements and Selective Bibliography

Note Frequency (Hz)
A 27.50
A# 29.14
B 30.87
C1 32.70
C# 34.65
D 36.71
D# 38.89
E 41.20
F 43.65
F# 46.25
G 49.00
G# 51.91
A 55.00
A# 58.27
B 61.74
C 65.41
C# 69.30
D 73.42
D# 77.78
E 82.41
F 87.31
F# 92.50
G 98.00
G# 103.83
A 110.00
A# 116.54
B 123.47
C 130.81
C# 138.59
D 146.83
D# 155.56
E 164.81
F 174.61
F# 185.00
G 196.00
G# 207.65
A 220.00
A# 233.08
B 246.94
Middle C 261.63
C# 277.18
D 293.66
D# 311.13
E 329.63
F 349.23
F# 369.99
G 392.00
G# 415.30
A 440.00
A# 466.16
B 493.88
C 523.25
C# 554.37
D 587.33
D# 622.25
E 659.26
F 698.46
F# 739.99
G 783.99
G# 830.61
A 880.00
A# 932.33
B 987.77
C 1046.50
C# 1108.73
D 1174.66
D# 1244.51
E 1318.51
F 1396.91
F# 1479.98
G 1567.98
G# 1661.22
A 1760.00
A# 1864.66
B 1975.53
C 2093.00
C# 2217.46
D 2349.32
D# 2489.02
E 2637.02
F 2793.83
F# 2959.96
G 3135.96
G# 3322.44
A 3520.00
A# 3729.31
B 3951.07
C 4186.01

For further info on concert pitch:
http://www.uk-piano.org/history/pitch.html