Mandolin Family of Instruments: Mandola, Octave, Mandocello & Mandolin

Subject: Guitar, Mandolin, Octave Mandolin, Mandola?!?!?!
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:39:33 -0500

Greetings,

Hi, I've been studying your site over the last week or so & I find myself getting more and more confused.

Thanks for tuning in...sorry about the confusion though...

Well confused may not be the right word, maybe it's "indecisive". Before I found your site I had pretty much decided on buying an Ovation CS247 from music123.com. But since I've found your video samples, I think I've been able to determine that some of my favorite music is actually played on a mandolin, that type of music being celtic in nature. So I've been checking out the Mid-Mo's; specifically the M4s & M11s. My concern though, is that my ears are very sensitive to high pitched sounds & I think the brightness of a mandolin may get to me after a while.

Yes, this is true as compared to the acoustic guitar...there is no bass end on a mandolin...they're essentially a melody instrument and are designed to play in an ensemble. As a solo instrument, they can become somewhat high pitched and you start missing the lower end bass found on guitar. I still play the mandolin as a solo instrument and have found ways for it to support itself to a degree...such as when utilizing a fingerstyle approach...nonetheless, it still has a high voice; this does take some getting used to.

Also, probably 95% or more of my playing will be solo (so low you can't hear it, LOL ) so I think I want something with some bass too it. So I decided to take a listen to your clips of octave mandolins.

This is most definitely a better option for the soloist...it can go as far as imitate the same pitch as a mandolin by playing above the 12th fret...yet, it can also offer a lower bass end to add supportive harmonies to the higher melodic lines...whereas, a mandolin would not have the lower end range that an octave has...

The odd thing is though, after listening to these clips, the sound of the octaves doesn't come across as being much different (I'm not sure why this is, I understand that they are exactly 1 octave lower). I'm wondering if it could be just the particular music that was being played.

It could be the style of music being played...when I play the octave up the neck, it does sound very similar to a mandolin. Even so, the open bass strings are still accessible to add more bottom end...making the octave a better solo instrument...at least an instrument with far more tonal range than a mandolin.

I have a few particular pieces of music that I would really like to learn to play & I'm wondering what type of instrument you think is playing this music. I guess one of my first questions then is: would it be ok for me to an mp3 of these clips to you & see what you think. I guess it's also possible that you would already be familiar with these particular pieces so here's a list of the songs. Each clip is about 3-4 megs. If you don't have high-speed internet, I could take out a 20 second or so clip from each (at least I think I could figure out how to)

Sure, send them on...I'm curious myself...
.
David Arkenstone - "The Palantir" from his "music inspired by middle earth" project. This is the particular piece that made me wonder about an octave, although I'm not sure that's what is being played, might even be synth.

Robert L Euvino - "Journeys" & "Sadtimes" from the soundtrack to the video game "Stronghold". This is one that really interests me because I think it might be a standard mandolin played lower than I'm accustomed to hearing in most of the clips, if so than I believe a standard mandolin could be just what I want.

Mark Knopfler - The Princess Bride main theme.

The two songs from "Stronghold" were released for free download on the net by Robert Euvino, so I know that there's no possible copyright problem there, I'm not sure about the others. I've tried finding info about the instruments used in these songs & I believe that Euvino & Knopfler used mandolins & I'm wondering if David Arkenstone used synth on his. I also really enjoy "The Battle of Evermore" by Zeppelin, but I already read where you said it was played with a mandolin. (I bought the only Zeppelin live DVD that I could find, mostly so I could see which instrument it was & low & behold, no "battle of evermore" to be found. :(

One of my largest hurdles is that I've only been able to hear Celtic music live only once in my life, so I have to go mostly by what I've learned on the net. At this point I have no interest in bluegrass, so I'm probably looking at an a-style with oval soundhole & flat top, right? I have practically 0 experience with playing music, so I'd appreciate advice on the easiest instrument to get started with.

Not necessarily...both my mandola and octave are f-style, archtop mandolins and I hardly ever play any bluegrass on them...and, if I do, it's just for fun...I use these instruments mostly to play a variety of styles including: jazz, classical, ragtime, fiddle tunes, Celtic, and so on...notwithstanding, if you're intending to play solo, you'll find a flat style with oval soundhole is far more resonant and alive sounding...lending itself well to soloing...

I have $600 to put in on a setup right now, if I wait a few weeks I could come up with $800 or so. I really have enjoyed your site & love the free lessons as I've tried them out with my crappy garage sale acoustic guitar & the 100% trade-up is appealing, so I want to spend my money with you guys.

Hope something here helps your focus...in the price range you're considering, you might try out the Trinity College Octave....always remember, you can start with something low with us, and eventually trade it up to something on the high end without any loss of initial investment...

Mickey

Sorry for the long , I know you guys must be extremely busy.

-Thanks in advance, Mark Mays

BTW…. If you haven't heard Euvino's Stronghold soundtrack, I would highly recommend the whole thing to anybody into Celtic music.

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:28:46 EST
Subject: What to do, what to do...Oh My Word!

Dear Mickey,

Greetings Dulcinea,

I have always wanted to play the Mandolin, and since I enjoy Renaissance Music and Celtic Music thought I might get a Celtic Octave Mandolin. I have never played any instrument before, and being that, do you think it is better starting off with a regular Mandolin?

It depends on what you hope to achieve...are you looking for an instrument that lends itself to bluegrass, if so, stay with the mandolin...if you're hoping to fill a void in a Celtic band, an octave will to you well...if you're playing mostly solo, and hope to perform with a mandolin family instrument without accompaniment, octave would be the best choice. Now, there are many other variables and considerations of which can be found on our FAQ database at http://www.folkofthewood.com/page142.htm

I have seen on eBay a low priced Celtic Octave Mandolin by Tyler Mountain. It seams to be nearly the same description for a "Trinity College" Regular Mandolin, you nearly can't tell them apart except for the long arm of course on the Octave Mando. All the Woods Mother Of Pearl
etc. are the same.

I suspect that it's made at the same factory in Korea...I've seen a few crossovers with other brands...only, I haven't seen a Tyler Mt. in person to date...if set up properly, I'm sure it will do you well....

I cannot find any Tyler Octave Celtic Mandolins even at the Tyler Mountain Site. This "Tyler is going for $349.95 so could it be any good? Have you ever heard of Tyler Mandolins? I am sorry to ask so many questions, but I am going nuts here with all the makers names out there. Thank you so very much for taking the time to read this.

Again, I believe set-up would be the most important consideration...I'm sure the Tyler Mt. is of the same grade as the Trinity College...and, as long as this is true, we ourselves, have to do a lot of sanding and filing to get them to a perfect playable level...

Mickey

Dulcinea.

Subject: Here's One For Ya...
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:51:39 -0400

Hi Mickey,

First, thanks for all the great info you put up on the website. Truly does
provide good reading.

I have a question. Really, it's a bunch of questions. I can't find this
addressed generally anywhere. The question concerns the differences among
the various mando family instruments. For example, mandolin, octave
mandolin, mandola, bazouki, mandocello, etc. (there seems to be an almost
infinite variety). I gather that an octave mandolin is tuned one octave
lower than the mandolin. That's about all I can figure out. And even among
octaves, there seems to be a variation in scale length. Why is that? Are
the octave mandos all "round" style? What are the preferred uses of these
various instruments? What are the variations in tuning? Do many people
play multiple mando family instruments?

For context, I'm primarily an acoustic guitar player, but I'm becoming more
interested in the mandolin. I have a very nice Kentucky 150S, and am toying
with the idea of getting a larger bodied instrument.

Thanks!

J. Mark Lane

Greetings J. Mark,

Nice to hear from you...and thanks for the kind words regarding our website.

Sorry I haven't been able to get back to you timely...

The question concerns the differences among
the various mando family instruments. For example, mandolin, octave
mandolin, mandola, bazouki, mandocello, etc. (there seems to be an almost
infinite variety). What are the preferred uses of these
various instruments? What are the variations in tuning?

1. Mandolin: Tuned in fifths...from G Low to E High G - D - A - E (compares to a violin in voicing)
The most common of all instruments in the mandolin family...used in many genres including: bluegrass, classical, jazz, country and rock. A great instrument to fill in within a band setting since it covers the tenor voicing of string instruments.
2. Octave Mandolin: Tuned in fifths one octave lower than standard mandolin... from G Low to E High G - D - A - E
A great instrument for mandolin tonality with a lower voicing...very common within celtic music circles. A great instrument to adapt to as a guitarist looking for a longer scaled neck as opposed to the short scale neck of the standard mandolin.
3. Mandola: Tuned in fifths from C Low to A High C - G - D - A (compares to a viola in voicing) Sounds great within celtic settings...also can be heard in some newgrass settings such as what David Grisman has offered in Dawg Music...also a great instrument for jazz settings.
4. Bouzouki: Tuned in a variety of ways...for Celtic: G - D - A - D or G - D - A - E Octave lower than standard mandolin tuning. Used in both traditional Greek music and celtic music. Has octave strings on the bass end that add clarity to the lower end...similar to a 12-string guitar.
5. Mandocello: Tuned in fifthe one octave lower than a Mandola from C Low to A High C - G - D - A (compares to a cello in voicing) Used mostly in mandolin orchestra settings to cover the lower voicings...can be used within a variety of styles such as celtic and jazz...mostly good for playing supporting roles and harmonies.

And even among
octaves, there seems to be a variation in scale length. Why is that?

Yes, there are varieties of scale lengths...this would depend on the maker's choice...there is no real standard per se...and the different scale lengths can affect ease of playability and harmonic structure...scale length being determined by the measurement from the bridge to the nut. I, personally, have no problem playing a variety of scale lengths...

Are
the octave mandos all "round" style?

If you're referring to body style: most octaves I've seen do come in the A-Style body...however, there are other variations of body styles such as Johnson makes with a medieval shaped octave...and, there are also many F-style body shapes originally introduced by Gibson and now manufactured by Weber.

Do many people
play multiple mando family instruments?

There are some eclectic players I know of who do pursue a the mandolin family instruments...one that quickly comes to mind is Tim O'Brien...you can add a wide array of textures and tonal colors by having the complete mandolin family of instruments within your arsenal. No matter what style of music is being played, one of these mandolins will befit the moment. Try playing an octave within a folk setting...or, a mandola within a rock setting...or, a bouzouki in a celtic setting ...or, a mandolin for straight ahead bluegrass. The variations and applications go on and on. I am a multi-instrumentalist who plays within the mandolin family of instruments. I've found infinite tonal variations at my disposal no matter what jamming environment I end up in...and, for solo, all of these instruments have infinite potential rarely explored...

Hope some of the above has been of help to you...Keep on Pickin', Mickey