Violin/Fiddle: Tuning & Tuning Tools
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a dumb questions
Hi:
I am an experienced guitar player and I am
interested in taking up the violin. I borrowed a
cheap one from a friend a few years back and was
disappointed with the tuning (peg) system. Dumb Question 1: Why do violins have such a
primitive tuning system?
I'm not too sure...it's a design tradition that's been handed down for centuries now...yes, it can take quite a bit of practice to learn to tune a violin from the wooden pegs alone...fortunately, there are options that make the tuning process a little bit easier:
1. Make sure that you have all four fine tuners on your tailpiece...if you don't, have them installed by a local repair/set-up shop. With fine tuners, you'll have the capability of tuning each string in smaller increments than using the pegs...you would bring the string up to relative pitch with the wooden pegs, and follow this, by tuning with the fine tuners for an exact pitch.
2. Make sure that you're using "Peg Drops" on the wooden pegs themselves...this ensures that the pegs do not slip on you during tuning or playing...
3. Make sure that as you tune up your wooden peg, that you're pushing it in slightly so that it holds pitch....
Dumb Question 2: Do some affordable violins have
guitar-like tuners?
Yes, there have been violins made with geared tuners...only, this adds lots of weight on the peghead and makes it feel top heavy...additionally, the weight of the tuning machines will take away from the light tonal character of the violin...I've seen some older, mid-1900s and up, violins with these tuning machines; today, I know of no one that makes them...
Hope this helps, Mickey
Subject: Re: Fwd: strings
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:28:03 -0400
Thanks, but I cannot find a diagram that answers the position in relation to the A and G inrelation to the pegs. Would I be correct to say thr A goes to the bottom peg and the G to the upper one?
Can a banjo be strung like a violin or madolin or is a "Banjo Mandolin" the only specific instrument that can do that? Tom
Greetings Tom,
This is difficult to explain by e-mail...but I'll do my best:
If you're looking face-on at the peghead...you'll see two pegs to the left and two to the right...
the bottom peg to the left, looking at it straight on, with the fingerboard facing you, is the G peg...the top peg to the left is the D peg...
the bottom peg to the right is the E peg...the top peg to the right is the A peg...
Yes, only a banjolin (banjo-mandoln) is capable of tuning to the same tuning as a mandolin/violin. There isn't another banjo that can be tuned to this tuning...keeping in mind, there are other banjos such as the tenor that's tuned in fifths (same intervals as mandolin/violin) only it's tuned C G D A...
Mickey
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:37:08 EDT
Subject: Slipping tuning pegs
Mickey;
I just bought a new student violin and tuning pegs for the D and E strings will not stay. They slip back so I cannot tune it. What's wrong? Is it defective?
HELP!
Thank you,
Kelly
There are a couple of methods to prevent this...and no, it's not defective unless it has a cracked pegbox causing the slippage...
1. Try some Peg Drops...this is a product that works amazingly well...you only have to apply one drop right where the peg meets the pegbox...and start tuning up...it works right away...and will assist in holding pitch on every sting. Amazing stuff!
2. You can use the old fiddler's trick and apply rosin dust to the peg...this requires some technique in that you'll have to pull the peg out slightly, sand down the rosin cake so that the dust falls directly onto the shaft of the peg, and then push the peg back into the pegbox. This works if done correctly...I still recommend the Peg Drops over this traditional fiddler's method...
Peg Drops are available at most music stores...Mickey
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:01:37 EST
Subject: violin tuning
Hello,
I really appreciate this web site. I was wondering while tuning my violin, Do I always turn the pegs in the same direction. I am a beginner, and I did purchase a tuner for pitch however I am still trying to figure out what else I need to do. I have another lesson in a few weeks, but I figured that this is something I need to take care of right away. Besides nothing sounds worse than a beginner practicing on a Violin out of tune.
Thankyou,
Becky
Greetings Becky,
Yes, one of the main areas of learning to play violin is learning to properly tune it...and, this in itself, can take many years of study...you'll want to attune the ear over time to differentiate pitches for one...and, this can be facilitated by using an electronic tuner...
Turning the pegs requires a skill in itself...for, once you get the string up to relative pitch, you'll want to push the peg into the peghead so that the peg will not slip from the tension of the string...and, after getting it close to pitch, then you'll want to tune the other three strings up to relative pitch...the reason you would do this is to evenly distribute the tension on the neck and body...otherwise, bringing only one string up to relative pitch, and then fine tuning it would be a waste of time...since after bringing the other three strings up to pitch, you would have to still fine tune this very same string further...due to the tension change after bringing all of the other strings up to pitch.
The pegs are turned counterclockwise on the G and D strings to bring up to pitch...and clockwise to lower in pitch...and the A and E strings are tuned the opposite...on the other side of the peghead...counterclockwise to lower pitch and clockwise to tune up the pitch...
Now, let's discuss the importance of ensuring that the pegs are not slipping...this can be one of the biggest frustrations of all...and you'll want to make sure that once you do bring your pegs up to pitch, and have pushed them into the peghead for tightness, they will not slip and cause the string to go flat...to prevent this, I highly recommend that you invest in a product called Peg Drops...this product only needs to be applied once every few months and will lessen the frustration of peg slippage.
Another consideration are the fine tuners...as a beginner, learning to tune is quite a bit easier with fine tuners. Most all violins come equipped with at least a fine tuner on the E string...even the most proficient classical soloist will many times have a fine tuner on the E string...now, for most of us utility players, having all 4 fine tuners is essential...I personally use an integrated tailpiece called the Dr. Thomastik...and find that I have far more control in bringing each string up to perfect pitch...I first tune each wooden peg up to relative pitch on each string...then I tune each individual string up to the final pitch...I then use the open strings played in unison fifths to double-check my tuning.
Hope something here helps you out...Mickey
Be sure to check out our free violin lessons section...I'll add the above to our database for everyone's benefit...keep on fiddlin', Mickey
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:06:36 EST
Subject: Using Electronic tuner for fiddle.
Hi,
I"ve just bought a fiddle and am trying to learn. I own guitars and a mandolin which I tune with an electronic tuner (which I see you recommend for beginners). However I can"t get the G, D, or E strings to register on the tuner (the type with built in mic for acoustic instruments),
I"ve tried holding it next to the body, as with my acoustic guitar, and also next to the strings (this sometimes registers the A string).
I would be grateful for any advice.
A frustrated English fiddler,
Peter Wood.
Greetings Peter,
Glad to assist:
First and foremost, the type of electronic tuner can make the difference...additionally, there are adjustments that may not allow the other notes to come up...
1. Be sure your electronic tuner is set to automatic...
2. If your tuner is a manual tuner, make sure that the octaves are set correctly for each not you're attempting to tune.
3. Try plucking the strings of the violin instead of using the bow...this is how I tune my violin...
Now, if nothing appears to work, you might try purchasing a Korg Chromatic Tuner of which I know works well...since I use one myself...Mickey
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:08:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What should the setting be for the violen (Hertz) on eletronic turner?
Thanks very much.
I have enjoyed all of your information.
M.McClendon
A = 440 is the default...and, is the calibration to use for tuning your A string on your violin.
Some orchestras may tune slightly higher...and, in this case, you would consult with the conductor before calibrating to ensure that you're on key with your fellow players.
Mickey
Subject: violin troubles
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:19:53 -0600
Our 13 year old daughter saved her money to purchase an inexpensive violin on the internet. But, we can seem to keep it tuned. We have used your website to set up the violin and get started. Your website has been wonderful. It has given her a hope that she can someday play a song on this violin. Can you help us with any more information about keeping it tuned. Will it take time for the instrument to hold a tune? We have put rosin on the pegs and it helped but didn't complete fix the problem. We are using an automatic guitar tuner. Thanks again for your website. Sincerely, The Blacks
Greetings,
This is common in a new violin...for a few reasons:
1. Slippage on the Wooden Pegs
2. New strings will require some stretching before they settle in and hold pitch.
3. The string windings on the pegs themselves need to be settled in...
I recommend a few things to ensure that the violin does settle in properly and holds perfect pitch:
1. Use Peg Drops...peg drops will ensure that the wooden pegs do not slip whatsoever...using rosin is secondary to this...and will work if done properly...
2. Try pulling the strings slightly upwards after tuning to pitch...this can take some of the slack out of the strings and help accelerate the settling in process for new strings.
3. Be sure to be pushing the wooden pegs in as you tune the strings up to pitch...this ensures that the pegs hold tighter as the tension of the string goes up.
Hope this helps, Mickey
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:16:30 -0500
Hi,
I just recently began playing the violin. My problem is that when I tried to lower the pitch of my D string to get it in tune it became extremely loose when I turned the tuning peg down. I tried to turn it back up, but it wont lock back in place and I'm afraid of breaking the string. Could you please help me?
thanks,
Mary Ellen
Greetings Mary,
This is a common problem with violins...when detuning a string, it's susceptible to coming loose from the peg where it's threaded through...the windings become very loose on the peg, and the lead end of the string, which is threaded through the hole originally, has more than likely come out of its hole. Whereupon, when you attempt to tune up the string, it's no longer catching on the peg. To rectify: simply pull the string completely out of the peg, and rethread the lead end through the hole...and start winding the peg back up to pitch.
If you find your pegs slipping, after tuning the peg up to pitch, be sure to consider a product such as Peg Drops.
Hope this helps, Mickey
Subject: A few Question that i would like to ask
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:30:54 +1000
Dear Mr. Cochran
I would like to ask you a simple question about tuning the violin. Every time that i have to use the violin.. it is always untuned by a semi tone or a tone for each string because the tuning pegs are loose...is it normal for this? or is it suppose to be tighten at all times. Could you please give me some advice on this please.
Thankyou, I look forward in your reply
Elisha
Greetings Elisha,
Glad to assist if I can:
1. Tuning your violin: The wooden pegs on your violin are susceptible to moving slightly...they are 1:1 ratio based on friction to hold tuning...therefore, the slipping you've described is normal.
One thing we always do before sending a violin out is to add "Peg Drops"...this is part of our set-up procedure...and, we believe everyone should keep a bottle of this at their disposal. It will prevent the pegs from moving after putting your instrument away...there's still a slight chance that the strings will pull down the peg a slight amount; however, it will most definitely minimize the peg from slipping...this is also great when attempting to tune with your pegs. I've found it makes the general approach to tuning a violin far less frustrating.
If the peg drops do not work for you, you may have the string windings on the peg incorrectly installed.
Hope this helps...Mickey
Subject: Violin Tuners
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:13:24 -0400
Hi Mickey,
I am considering buying a violin and learning to play it again. I have some questions for you - Why do some violins have fine tuners on the tailpiece and some don't, and are they absolutely necessary? And the other question is - when I took the violin as a child, we had tuners that you could blow in and tune your violin that way - do you sell those?
That's about it. I love your website, it's very informative and well done.
Sincerely,
Caroline Kalish
Greetings Caroline,
Glad to assist with your questions:
Most student violins have all four tuners on the tailpiece...for the reason that it's far easier to fine tune...hence the name "fine tuners"...for a beginner to adjust wooden pegs in a peghead, the traditional approach to tuning, requires quite a bit of practice. And, even with lots of practice, it can be difficult to center the string on the exact pitch...since wooden pegs are based on friction. One very important aspect of tuning a wooden peg, with or without fine tuners, is to use peg drops to ensure that the peg doesn't slip. We do this with every violin we ship as part of the set-up process.
I, personally, use fine tuners on all 4 strings. Most classical violinists use the traditional approach to tuning...and, even then, they usually always have a fine tuner on the "E" string which can be the most difficult to tune accurately. Fiddlers, on the other hand, almost always have all 4 fine tuners. I installed a Dr. Thomastic Tailpiece on my Buchner violin...the Dr. Thomastic has integrated tuners on the tailpiece as opposed to the standard fine tuners that are separate from the tailpiece. We do sell the fine tuners; however, I'd still recommend that you go to your local music store to have them fit a set properly to your tailpiece. They're relatively inexpensive...and most tailpieces require a certain size fine tuner.
The type of tuning tool that requires you to blow into for a pitch is called a "Pitch Pipe"...these are okay for a general reference. However, if you are just starting out, and you haven't developed your ear as of for distinguishing pitches, it would be best to invest in an electronic tuner. These offer a visual reference for tuning each violin string independently and are extremely accurate.
At your disposal, Mickey
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