Adapting an Acoustic Guitar to Dobro Resonator Resophonic Guitar Extension Nuts for conversion to SN

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:44:54 -0400
Subject: Dobro Question

Can a typical acoustic guitar be used to begin learning how to play the dobro? If so, what type of issues would I run into that may limit my abilities to learn? I plan to take some lessons at Jorma's Fur Peace Ranch and want to learn a bit and get comfortable with playing a dobro before attending the lessons. I am limited by a budget for a while before I can purchase a Dobro. What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
Mark DiSciullo

Greetings Mark,

Yes, a standard acoustic guitar can be converted to a squareneck Dobro...you only need an extension nut. This nut rides on top of the standard nut and raises the strings a distance to allow for using a Stevens Steel bar without hearing fret noise. Now, you'll want to be careful about the tension of the strings as it's tuned up to squareneck tuning: G B D G B D from low to high. A squareneck has a thicker neck which allows for this tuning...

1. Do not convert an expensive guitar to squareneck playing...only use a guitar that you feel is somewhat expendable...such as a cheaper import.

2. Consider tuning one whole step lower, such as F A C F A C from low to high...this will minimize the unnecessary stress given to a roundneck conversion.

3. Use a lighter gauge string...not mediums, when tuning up to the G B D G B D tuning...on a squareneck, the gauges are quite a bit thicker; and there again, the squareneck can uphold this tension.

Remember, by converting a standard roundneck guitar to squareneck playing, doesn't mean you'll have the same sound as a Dobro. With the lighter gauge strings and since you won't have a resophonic cone, expect a lot less volume and a thinner tonal range. At the very least, you will be better able to learn the squareneck approach...which is the entire objective of this...

I didn't know Jorma was teaching lap style squareneck Dobro...maybe, he'll be teaching blues-style roundneck slide Dobro? Send me the teaching schedule if you can...I'd love to research this further on your behalf...and am interested myself on what this is all about. I'm surprised Jorma hasn't contacted me about advertising and promoting his efforts. I would have been happy to do it for him free of charge.

On another note, I've always loved everything Jorma has ever done...and was raised with his music...he was my biggest influence in learning to play fingerstyle ragtime guitar. I'm forever indebted to him and Jack for their immense influence and a lifetime of inspiration.

Keep on Pickin', Mickey

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:35:33 -0800
Subject: Using a nut extender with my Fender FR-50

Is there any problem using a nut extender with this guitar?

What can I expect in terms of the difference in sound?

Thanks,
Bill j.

Greetings Bill,

The extension nut is deisgned to convert a roundneck guitar or dobro into a squareneck for lap style playing...now, I'm sure you're already aware of this...

Only, keep in mind, a roundneck dobro converted to a squareneck dobro, or guitar conversion, would almost always be done in order to play bluegrass in Open G Tuning G B D G B D...

Additionally, this tuning adds quite a bit of tension to a roundneck...I would only perform this conversion if I was really in need of a squareneck to begin learning bluegrass (or country) dobro...I would not perform this on a vintage guitar or a valuable guitar...on a Fender, I wouldn't worry too much about it...only, again, you're taking a risk with warping the neck...

Be sure to check out our FAQs linked from below...most of this is covered in detail...

Good Luck!

Mickey

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:45:24 -0500
Subject: Using a round neck for lap style play

Mickey,

Greetings Sheryl,

I have read all the Q & A's about playing a roundneck lap style and understand that the primary concern is the stress on the neck due to the nut extender and increased string tension. I purchased a Martin 000-15 to play lap style because I want to play blues music and the mahogany gives the guitar a nice bluesy sound. All of the reviews I read on Harmony Central about this particular guitar were good and commented on how great the "bluesy" sound was. This is not a cheap guitar and I don't want to damage it by using a nut extension, and was wondering what steps besides not using the nut extension could be taken to relieve the tension on the neck.

Well, you'll definitely want to avoid using any kind of nut extension...

These are a few ideas I came up with I would like your input on their viability. What if I were to keep it in some form of "D" tuning, I am finding a lot of blues music in "D".

This isn't necessary...you should be able to detune and tune standard without worrying about any stress...or concerning yourself about relieving stress...

Right now I'm working on "Black Crow Keeps Flying" by Kelly Joe Phelps, it's a "D" tuning capoed at the 5th fret. Another idea was to "untune" it after I play to release the tension on the strings until I will play again.

This, believe it or not, is far worse than just leaving the tension up to standard pitch...by tuning up to standard, and followed by loosening the strings, is adding too much back and forth added stress and relieved stress...which can create more problems than leaving the strings taut.

I don't gig I am learning guitar for my own enjoyment so I play maybe an hour a day, with only having the guitar tuned for that short a time will the use of the nut extension hurt the guitar?

Yes...I only recommend using the nut extension with a less valuable guitar...

I don't want to take the guitar back because I like the sound and by all accounts it is a good quality guitar, but if people with knowledge about these things say that it is inevitable that damage will occur even with the measures I've outlined above then I need to make a decision quickly as there is a 30 day return policy and I am two weeks into it already. Please give me your advise as I'm torn as to what to do.

My recommendation, to ensure that you won't have any neck problems, is to use a light gauge set of guitar strings...this is the best precaution to ensure minimal stress on the neck of your guitar.

We have some of these 000 15/16's come through on trade...and they're all high grade guitars...don't concern yourself about returning your Martin...you should gain many years of enjoyment out of it....it's a great value period.

Mickey

Thank you,
Sheryl

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:47:16 EST
Subject: attn: Mickey

Mickey
I recently read an article on turning a Strat into a Lap Steel, and it seemed to easy. How "easy" would that be, and what would I need? Is there a "conversion kit" or is it pieces and parts? I have several Strats and this particular one never gets to go out and play because the others have much better tone. I play a lot of slide and thought this would be an interesting way to get it "out of the closet" for some play time.
Appreciate your input.
Randall Troy

Greetings Randall,
Yes, it can be easily done...with what is called an extension nut. Yes, we sell them at 7.95 or so...you're welcome to call Tradd @ 888-209-8434 who would be happy to fill you in further on these...he plays squareneck and roundneck dobro and may be able to further assist you in determining if this will fit your needs.
The extension nut is easy to install...simply loosen all 6 strings, slide the extension nut over the existing nut, place the strings in each respective slot, and finalize the installation by tightening up the strings to your preferred tuning.
Be aware, if you're using a standard squareneck tuning, such as open G at G B D G B D...this will put unnecessary stress on the neck of your Strat...hence, it's best to use tunings such as open G: D G D G B D...
Hope this helps, Mickey

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:09:37 -0800
Subject: dobro accessories

I was visiting your website today and ran across a suggestion on turning a
regular guitar into somewhat of a resonator. Will the extension nut that
was suggested fit most guitars (mine is a Guild D-35 acoustic)?

Thanks for your help.

Rick

Greetings Rick,

Yes, any guitar can be converted to a squareneck simply by adding an extension nut...these are very easy to install...you only need to loosen all of your strings, place the extension nut on top of your built-in nut, and then place all the strings in their respective slots...before tuning back up to pitch...

Be aware, you would only want to do this on an expendable acoustic guitar...I wouldn't do it on a vintage or valuable guitar...when tuning up to squareneck tuning, G B D G B D there's quite a bit of tension on a regular guitar neck...which can warp the neck and may even create irreparable damage...

Mickey

Subject: converting a roundneck dobro for bluegrass/lap style playing.
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:28:02 -0500

Greetings, Michael:

Greetings Rick,

Glad to assist if I can:

I was viewing your "Lesson 1" for dobro. I noticed that you mention how to convert a roundneck dobro for bluegrass or lap style playing. I am 49 years old and I have been playing guitars and electric bass for many years. However, I am VERY new to the dobro. My interest in the instrument is only about a two years old. I saw Jerry Douglas playing with Union Station on CMT and I was mesmerized! The man is God-Awful Excellent. He makes that instrument really sing!

You have my vote! One of my all-time favorite albums, ever recorded, no matter what instrument, genre or medium, is Douglas' "Under the Wire"...wow! He takes the dobro places that's unimaginably possible.He seems to cover the gamut in one recording...it's a journey from Celtic to Bluegrass to Jazz to New Age to Blues to Rock. If you don't already have this CD, and you're a fan of the dobro, this would be an essential addition to your CD collection.

My wife recently purchased an Dobro for me. She did consult me at the time she placed a bid on the instrument (on Ebay) and I concurred. It was only afterwards that I realized that what I should have probably purchased was a square neck dobro for the style I prefer to learn how to play. What she purchased was a Johnson Classic Triolian resonator model #JR-500 Sunburst.

It is a beautiful instrument. It has a very nice solid sound, plus it has had an EMG pickup professionally installed. I have viewed some of your Q & A regarding dobro conversions. My concern is whether "installing" an extension nut and therefore increasing the tension of the strings I might damage such a beautiful instrument.

I would not recommend performing a conversion on the JR-500...this dobro is designed for roundneck blues...even the resophonic cone assembly is a blues configuration...smaller assembly and designed for a more nasal bluesy output. Yes, it can still be done...and, yes, it would still be okay to learn squarneck applications...however, beyond the fact that the cone assembly was not designed for squareneck tuning, this guitar is slightly smaller in configuration to the standard Regal-body size found on most squarenecks. I believe the Triolian body size and style is more fragile...and, with it tuned up to squareneck open G, I believe there will be a tremendous stress put on the neck and on the bridges. Hence, I highly recommend that you keep this guitar as a roundneck to be played in roundneck fashion. You might consider finding an older, inexpensive acoustic guitar to convert with an extension nut...you could still learn to play squareneck as effectively on an older guitar...and, eventually, once you've learned, you can then always look for a tradtional squareneck dobro...

Right now though, I note that the tension level is actually pretty low (lower than my Ovation acoustic/electric); but I am still concerned, and I want to hear from someone objective who knows a lot more about the instrument. If this instrument has a truss rod, its adjustment location is obviously in the soundhole. Are you aware if this model has a truss rod?

We do carry the Triolians...both made by Regal and Johnson. I do not have one in front of me...however, I know that the Regals do have truss rods and truss rod covers on the peghead...the Johnson is essentially the same as the Regal.

Without removing the cover I can only speculate, however, I know that the 520 model has one. I have checked with my local large music store chain (Sam Ash) and they do not have extension nuts, at least on their website. I would be interested in purchasing an extension nut from your organization, as well as a Stevens slide. If it's ok to convert this instrument to the style I wish to learn how to play, I will do so. Later, I can pick up a good squareneck dobro.

Again, my suggestion would be to retain the integrity of your JR-500 by not converting to SN...if you have an older acoustic guitar, that's not a valuable vintage instrument, you might want to convert it instead. If you'd like to order a conversion nut, along with a Stevens Steel, please call us at 888-209-8434...

I am very interested in your opinion(s) on this matter.

I hope something here has been of assistance to you...Mickey

Thank you,

Rick Arend

Subject: new round neck
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:08:50 -0500

Hey Mickey, I've just acquired a roundneck hoping to play it like a regular bluegrass squareneck. That goes to show you how much I know about the things. Could you give me your opinion on the matter? Thank you -Earl

Greetings Earl,

It's most definitely possible to play your roundneck as a squareneck...you only need a squareneck conversion nut...we sell them at 7.95 I believe...you can check with our staff at 888-209-8434...sorry, I'm not answering this e-mail from the store...

It's a very simple conversion: you only need to loosen your strings, slip the non-stationary squareneck conversion nut over the original nut, then tighten the strings...and tune it up to standard squareneck open G tuning: GBDGBD The tension of the strings will keep the conversion nut in place.

Please take note: if the roundneck you picked up is an expensive vintage model, or even a high-end new model, I would suggest not using the conversion nut. It does put quite a bit of tension on the neck and can cause some neck warping. With a cheapie roundneck, this can be easily rectified if it has a truss rod...it's how I got my start on sqaureneck: by converting a roundneck to a squareneck with the conversion nut.

Mickey

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:32:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: dobro conversion

Hi Mickey,
I have a roundneck Fender Resonator I wish to convert to a bluegrass
dobro. If I had an extension nut and lighter gauge strings what would
the proper tuning for this be? I know I can not use an open G tuning.
What would the proper tuning sequence be?
Thank you,
Elaine Grillo

Greetings Elaine,

The standard tuning for Dobro Squareneck is from low to high: G B D G B D...

Please be aware, this tuning will add undue stress to your Roundneck...yes, you can use the extended nut...and, yes, you can tune to this tuning with a lighter gauge strings...however, it will not have the fat sound of a standard squareneck with the thicker gauge strings...

Problems that may occur when using extension nuts:

1. The extension nut will carry the weight of the strings and may creat some indentations in both the fingerboard and the peghead.

2. The string tension may warp your neck...

3. You will not be able to use a standard Shubb Brass Capo which slides under the strings...due to the lower height of the extension nut. If you do want to capo, you'll want to get a floating capo such as what Beard or Dan Huckabee offers.

Hope this helps...Mickey

Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:08:19 -0500
Subject: Old Washburn

Mickey and friends,

I have an old Washburn with the octave ending at the neck of it similar
to a Classical guitar, could it be tuned and used as a Dobro? I realize
the tone might not be the same, but I think after reading your lessons
that I could do that.

Also where could I find more sheet music or lesson books to expand on
your great instructions?

Doug Smith

Greetings Doug,

For further instructional material produced by FOTW on Dobro Technique, please check out our newly published "Intro to Dobro Part I"...it covers many of the rolls introduced on our website...and even introduces new exercises and technique builders that go far beyond the Dobro lessons on the FOTW site.

Yes, you can convert your Old Washburn to a lap style steel on the following conditions:

1. If it doesn't have a vintage value.
2. If IT IS a steel string acoustic guitar (as opposed to a nylon string)...nylon string guitars are not designed to be used with steel strings...the bracing and bridge is far too light for the tension of steel strings.
3. If you only use light gauge acoustic guitar strings...since a roundneck is not designed to take the same tension as a squareneck, you do not want to tune up to open G Dobro tuning and add any unnecessary stress with medium or heavy gauge strings (or even string designed for a squareneck G dobro tuning).
4. The guitar needs to have a reinforced, adjustable truss rod. In case you decide to play it as a roundneck again and it develops any slight bend from the conversion.
5. You take full responsibility for your own experimentation.

As far as whether the neck joins at the 12th fret or the 14th fret is not so much of an issue. I have 2 England squarenecks in stock and both have a non-traditional 14-fret neck.

If you do decide to convert your guitar, please understand, it's at your own risk. I've only provided the guidelines above to minimize problems not to prevent them entirely. Please read our disclaimer below:
--
Disclaimer: Folk of the Wood, or any of its staff, takes no responsibility for damages that concur from any suggestions or recommendations submitted by e-mail or by phone. It's the responsibility of the owner of an instrument to take precaution in every respect when trying something new or following someone else's recommendations. Always be extra careful about choosing the right products and cleaners for maintaining the integrity of your instrument. If you are in question about a particular product, be sure to consult the manufacturer of the product for any potential problems in application. If you have no experience in luthiery work, Folk of the Wood takes no responsibility for any damage concurred by others who attempt to repair, adjust, convert or build any musical instrument. Folk of the Wood highly recommends that you visit your local luthier for any type of adjustment, repair, modification or conversion.

Subject: Roundneck or Squareneck Dobro
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:53:12 -0500

Greetings Eric,

We're glad to assist if we can...

I know you can use the roundneck dobro for blues style and then just add
the nut elevator for lap style bluegrass. Is there going to be a big
difference in sound or play between the square neck or a roundneck with a
elevator?

There's a difference mostly in playability...

The roundneck with the elevated nut adaptor will have a narrow string spacing...limiting the facility when playing on the lap...additionally, the strings are not elevated as high as the traditional squareneck model...volume will have a subtle difference...the volume on a squareneck will be slightly louder due to the strings being even higher than the roundneck with adaptor. I suspect the sustain would be different due to the squareneck having a thicker neck...and, keep in mind, a squareneck can withstand the heavier gauged treble strings; whereas, the roundneck with adapter should only be played with a light gauge string set...the heavier gauge will have more volume and fullness in tone.

Hope the above helps...Mickey

Thanks a lot-
Eric Evenson

Subject: Dobro F60
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:12:58 -0600

Recently I traded for a Dobro F60 at my local music store . My dobro is a
round neck and I want to play lap style, bluegrass. I have a extention nut
and am working with some books. My first question is, can I expect to learn
as well or would I be advised to get a squareneck? My second question is,
would you have any interest in trading for my instrument?

Greetings from Folk of the Wood...

Glad to assist if I can...

The extension nut should work fin on your F-60 as you've described. The only things to concern yourself about is:
1. Don't use standard Open-G Tuning Strings that are designed for squareneck Dobro...the reason: the gauges of each string are much heavier than a standard set of guitar strings...this, in combination with the extra stress of tuning to open-G Squareneck Tuning (GBDGBD), will put too much stress on a guitar designed as a roundneck.

2. A roundneck guitar, even with the extension nut, has a narrow string spacing. A standard squarneck will offer more space between each string making it more accommodating for lap style playing.

Outside of the above, you most definitely can learn on a roundneck with an extension nut...

At your disposal, Mickey