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Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:03:40 -0600
Subject: Dobro Extension Nut

Your Name: Priscilla Polenzani
Subject: strings for guitar'dobro conversion
Message: I read with interest your conversion article and would like to purchase a nut for converting my Martin backpacker guitar into a dobro. What gauge strings and type of stringswould you recommend? I do not play guitar, so am a novice at guitar strings. I play music in hospital and hospice settings and would like to include my dobro, but it is too loud. Since I need a quiet sound, would acoustic strings work? If so, what kind? Otherwise, Ill take your advice on metal strings, fully aware of your disclaimer. Thanks.

Greetings Priscilla,

Although this can be done, I wouldn't recommend it on a Martin Backpacker.

Keep in mind, a Martin Backpacker really isn't designed to take the same stress as a larger acoustic guitar due to the smaller body and bracing structure. When raising the nut, as you know, the tension amplifies immensely.

Let's see, if you're willing to take the chance of it possibly incurring some structural problems:

1. Extra Light Gauge Strings

2. Steel of course for slides do not work on nylon strings.

3. A low profile extension nut.

4. Tune a whole step lower than usual.

Hope this helps,

Mickey Cochran

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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:18:03 -0700
Subject: Adapting a roundneck to a squareneck ...

Hi Mickey,

Your Intro to dobro playing Part II and the strap were here. After lunch spent about two hours mainly just practicing the various rolls with the slide and switching at random from high strings to bass strings and back. For example, open roll on high strings and C position on bass strings and back to high strings for D position and finishing on open on the bass and so forth. Fingers got tired but "By Jove, I think I've got it!" in a British accent from sound of music.

That's a great way to practice the rolls ... for you'll have greater facility with your right hand ... so many songs really call for rolls from the low bass end to the high end.

I also did some browsing for brass body resonators. I hate to be a tightwad but I will never play professionally so a $2400 dobro isn't my style. I did find one that interested me: Rogue Classic Brass body for about $349 and they pay shipping from music123.com Also same at Musicians Friend.

What are your thoughts about using one with a standard round guitar neck and putting on one of those upper nuts to raise the strings to avoid the fret sounds and later switching back if I want to play it as standard guitar. I would appreciate your thoughts and ideas on this since you have traveled a few more miles and hills and valleys than I in this field.

Well, adapting a roundneck will work fine with an extension nut. However, there are a few drawbacks:

1. The extended nut will add lots of tension to a roundneck ... so, you'll want to only adapt a cheaper Dobro for it could create irreparable damage to the neck.

2. The strings are raised well enough to play with a Stevens Steel; unfortunately, they're still not as high as a standard squareneck ... so the tonal quality is not the same (very close though).

3. The roundneck doesn't rest on the lap as comfortably as the bottom of a squareneck. Hence, the positioning will feel different ...

4. You really will want to use a lighter gauge set of strings on an adapted roundneck ... for, otherwise, the tension with standard squareneck strings could be devastating to the neck's integrity.

Weather is getting warmer but still fairly cool, a warm front moving up from Gulf with possible rain and wham! back down to around 15 degrees by Monday or Tuesday. Sure hard on pianos I used to tune especially in concert halls which has no heat when not in use!

Your friend and satisfied customer, Jack

Infinitely Yours, Mickey

Mickey Cochran
Mystic West Products
Acoustic Music Instruction
PO Box 2810
Alto, New Mexico 88312

http://www.mysticwestproducts.com

 

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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:37:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Nut Extenders

Hi Mickey,

I have written you before about Resonators. I have been searching the Folk of Wood site and the net for info on installing a Nut extender. The question I have is about the cone when converting. If I loosen all the strings at once to put the extender over the existing nut, will this disturb the cone and spider?

No, it won't necessarily disturb the cone and spider, however, you'll want to watch your bridge/saddle pieces carefully after loosening all strings to ensure they don't move until you can get some pressure on them with the replaced strings.

Is there a recommended method to hold the bridge down to not disturb the cone while installing the extender?

Not that I know of ... I would just be extra careful to keep the dobro flat, face up and still as possible.

Also, would it be a good idea to put some type of heavy duty foam rubber (like they use on capos) under the extender so the tension of the strings won't indent the neck and headstock from the metal ridge of the extender?

This is really a good idea ... because the extender really can leave an indentation on the headstock and neck. Maybe some kind of rubber matte ... one of the things we wanted to introduce was a nut extender with a built-in foot to minimize any potential damage.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

Hope something here helps. Mickey

Thanks, Gary

Mickey Cochran
Mystic West Products
Acoustic Music Instruction
PO Box 2810
Alto, New Mexico 88312

http://www.mysticwestproducts.com

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Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:40:17 -0600
Subject: Re: round neck reso string tension

Hi there,
Ive just read a disscussion on your site about round neck resonator tuning. surley if you used an slightly higher guage A string in the low E string possition that would cure the tension problem, allowing you to tune it to GBDGBD?

Greetings,

Yes, using a higher gauge A string in place of the E string would certainly lower the tension ... and, using a D string in place of the A string would even lower the tension further.

The real tension scales up when raising the action ... the higher the strings off the fretboard the more the tension placed on the neck. That's why a squareneck has so much bulk in its neck.

The nice thing about the strings raised off the fretboard, and using a slide, you no longer have to worry about intonation issues. Hence, if the neck does warp slightly, it's not going to affect the pitch quality ...

Now, I would never adapt a high-quality roundneck to squareneck ... if it's an inexpensive guitar, and you don't have a concern about warping the neck, then by all means, have fun with the process. And, certainly, you can learn all of your squareneck techniques on an adapted roundneck. Still, the ultimate would be to have a squareneck designed to have the strings raised.

All my best in your research,
--

Mickey Cochran
Mystic West Products
Acoustic Music Instruction
PO Box 2810
Alto, New Mexico 88312

http://www.mysticwestproducts.com

Thanks for the reply. Very kind of you, and useful!
Regards, Ned.

 

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:44:54 -0400
Subject: Dobro Question

Can a typical acoustic guitar be used to begin learning how to play the dobro? If so, what type of issues would I run into that may limit my abilities to learn? I plan to take some lessons at Jorma's Fur Peace Ranch and want to learn a bit and get comfortable with playing a dobro before attending the lessons. I am limited by a budget for a while before I can purchase a Dobro. What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
Mark DiSciullo

Greetings Mark,

Yes, a standard acoustic guitar can be converted to a squareneck Dobro...you only need an extension nut. This nut rides on top of the standard nut and raises the strings a distance to allow for using a Stevens Steel bar without hearing fret noise. Now, you'll want to be careful about the tension of the strings as it's tuned up to squareneck tuning: G B D G B D from low to high. A squareneck has a thicker neck which allows for this tuning...

1. Do not convert an expensive guitar to squareneck playing...only use a guitar that you feel is somewhat expendable...such as a cheaper import.

2. Consider tuning one whole step lower, such as F A C F A C from low to high...this will minimize the unnecessary stress given to a roundneck conversion.

3. Use a lighter gauge string...not mediums, when tuning up to the G B D G B D tuning...on a squareneck, the gauges are quite a bit thicker; and there again, the squareneck can uphold this tension.

Remember, by converting a standard roundneck guitar to squareneck playing, doesn't mean you'll have the same sound as a Dobro. With the lighter gauge strings and since you won't have a resophonic cone, expect a lot less volume and a thinner tonal range. At the very least, you will be better able to learn the squareneck approach...which is the entire objective of this...

I didn't know Jorma was teaching lap style squareneck Dobro...maybe, he'll be teaching blues-style roundneck slide Dobro? Send me the teaching schedule if you can...I'd love to research this further on your behalf...and am interested myself on what this is all about. I'm surprised Jorma hasn't contacted me about advertising and promoting his efforts. I would have been happy to do it for him free of charge.

On another note, I've always loved everything Jorma has ever done...and was raised with his music...he was my biggest influence in learning to play fingerstyle ragtime guitar. I'm forever indebted to him and Jack for their immense influence and a lifetime of inspiration.

Keep on Pickin', Mickey

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:35:33 -0800
Subject: Using a nut extender with my Fender FR-50

Is there any problem using a nut extender with this guitar?

What can I expect in terms of the difference in sound?

Thanks,
Bill j.

Greetings Bill,

The extension nut is deisgned to convert a roundneck guitar or dobro into a squareneck for lap style playing...now, I'm sure you're already aware of this...

Only, keep in mind, a roundneck dobro converted to a squareneck dobro, or guitar conversion, would almost always be done in order to play bluegrass in Open G Tuning G B D G B D...

Additionally, this tuning adds quite a bit of tension to a roundneck...I would only perform this conversion if I was really in need of a squareneck to begin learning bluegrass (or country) dobro...I would not perform this on a vintage guitar or a valuable guitar...on a Fender, I wouldn't worry too much about it...only, again, you're taking a risk with warping the neck...

Be sure to check out our FAQs linked from below...most of this is covered in detail...

Good Luck!

Mickey

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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:45:24 -0500
Subject: Using a round neck for lap style play

Mickey,

Greetings Sheryl,

I have read all the Q & A's about playing a roundneck lap style and understand that the primary concern is the stress on the neck due to the nut extender and increased string tension. I purchased a Martin 000-15 to play lap style because I want to play blues music and the mahogany gives the guitar a nice bluesy sound. All of the reviews I read on Harmony Central about this particular guitar were good and commented on how great the "bluesy" sound was. This is not a cheap guitar and I don't want to damage it by using a nut extension, and was wondering what steps besides not using the nut extension could be taken to relieve the tension on the neck. 

Well, you'll definitely want to avoid using any kind of nut extension...

These are a few ideas I came up with I would like your input on their viability. What if I were to keep it in some form of "D" tuning, I am finding a lot of blues music in "D".

This isn't necessary...you should be able to detune and tune standard without worrying about any stress...or concerning yourself about relieving stress...

Right now I'm working on "Black Crow Keeps Flying" by Kelly Joe Phelps, it's a "D" tuning capoed at the 5th fret. Another idea was to "untune" it after I play to release the tension on the strings until I will play again.

This, believe it or not, is far worse than just leaving the tension up to standard pitch...by tuning up to standard, and followed by loosening the strings, is adding too much back and forth added stress and relieved stress...which can create more problems than leaving the strings taut.

I don't gig I am learning guitar for my own enjoyment so I play maybe an hour a day, with only having the guitar tuned for that short a time will the use of the nut extension hurt the guitar?

Yes...I only recommend using the nut extension with a less valuable guitar...

I don't want to take the guitar back because I like the sound and by all accounts it is a good quality guitar, but if people with knowledge about these things say that it is inevitable that damage will occur even with the measures I've outlined above then I need to make a decision quickly as there is a 30 day return policy and I am two weeks into it already. Please give me your advise as I'm torn as to what to do.

My recommendation, to ensure that you won't have any neck problems, is to use a light gauge set of guitar strings...this is the best precaution to ensure minimal stress on the neck of your guitar.

We have some of these 000 15/16's come through on trade...and they're all high grade guitars...don't concern yourself about returning your Martin...you should gain many years of enjoyment out of it....it's a great value period.

Mickey


Thank you,
Sheryl   

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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:47:16 EST
Subject: attn: Mickey

Mickey
I recently read an article on turning a Strat into a Lap Steel, and it seemed to easy. How "easy" would that be, and what would I need? Is there a "conversion kit" or is it pieces and parts? I have several Strats and this particular one never gets to go out and play because the others have much better tone. I play a lot of slide and thought this would be an interesting way to get it "out of the closet" for some play time.
Appreciate your input.
Randall Troy

Greetings Randall,
Yes, it can be easily done...with what is called an extension nut. Yes, we sell them at 7.95 or so...you're welcome to call Tradd @ who would be happy to fill you in further on these...he plays squareneck and roundneck dobro and may be able to further assist you in determining if this will fit your needs.
The extension nut is easy to install...simply loosen all 6 strings, slide the extension nut over the existing nut, place the strings in each respective slot, and finalize the installation by tightening up the strings to your preferred tuning.
Be aware, if you're using a standard squareneck tuning, such as open G at G B D G B D...this will put unnecessary stress on the neck of your Strat...hence, it's best to use tunings such as open G: D G D G B D...
Hope this helps, Mickey

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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:09:37 -0800
Subject: dobro accessories

I was visiting your website today and ran across a suggestion on turning a
regular guitar into somewhat of a resonator. Will the extension nut that
was suggested fit most guitars (mine is a Guild D-35 acoustic)?

Thanks for your help.

Rick

Greetings Rick,

Yes, any guitar can be converted to a squareneck simply by adding an extension nut...these are very easy to install...you only need to loosen all of your strings, place the extension nut on top of your built-in nut, and then place all the strings in their respective slots...before tuning back up to pitch...

Be aware, you would only want to do this on an expendable acoustic guitar...I wouldn't do it on a vintage or valuable guitar...when tuning up to squareneck tuning, G B D G B D there's quite a bit of tension on a regular guitar neck...which can warp the neck and may even create irreparable damage...

Mickey

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Subject: converting a roundneck dobro for bluegrass/lap style playing.
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:28:02 -0500

Greetings, Michael:

Greetings Rick,

Glad to assist if I can:

I was viewing your "Lesson 1" for dobro. I noticed that you mention how to convert a roundneck dobro for bluegrass or lap style playing. I am 49 years old and I have been playing guitars and electric bass for many years. However, I am VERY new to the dobro. My interest in the instrument is only about a two years old. I saw Jerry Douglas playing with Union Station on CMT and I was mesmerized! The man is God-Awful Excellent. He makes that instrument really sing! 

You have my vote! One of my all-time favorite albums, ever recorded, no matter what instrument, genre or medium, is Douglas' "Under the Wire"...wow! He takes the dobro places that's unimaginably possible.He seems to cover the gamut in one recording...it's a journey from Celtic to Bluegrass to Jazz to New Age to Blues to Rock. If you don't already have this CD, and you're a fan of the dobro, this would be an essential addition to your CD collection.

My wife recently purchased an Dobro for me. She did consult me at the time she placed a bid on the instrument (on Ebay) and I concurred. It was only afterwards that I realized that what I should have probably purchased was a square neck dobro for the style I prefer to learn how to play. What she purchased was a Johnson Classic Triolian resonator model #JR-500 Sunburst.

It is a beautiful instrument. It has a very nice solid sound, plus it has had an EMG pickup professionally installed. I have viewed some of your Q & A regarding dobro conversions. My concern is whether "installing" an extension nut and therefore increasing the tension of the strings I might damage such a beautiful instrument. 

I would not recommend performing a conversion on the JR-500...this dobro is designed for roundneck blues...even the resophonic cone assembly is a blues configuration...smaller assembly and designed for a more nasal bluesy output. Yes, it can still be done...and, yes, it would still be okay to learn squarneck applications...however, beyond the fact that the cone assembly was not designed for squareneck tuning, this guitar is slightly smaller in configuration to the standard Regal-body size found on most squarenecks. I believe the Triolian body size and style is more fragile...and, with it tuned up to squareneck open G, I believe there will be a tremendous stress put on the neck and on the bridges. Hence, I highly recommend that you keep this guitar as a roundneck to be played in roundneck fashion. You might consider finding an older, inexpensive acoustic guitar to convert with an extension nut...you could still learn to play squareneck as effectively on an older guitar...and, eventually, once you've learned, you can then always look for a tradtional squareneck dobro...

Right now though, I note that the tension level is actually pretty low (lower than my Ovation acoustic/electric); but I am still concerned, and I want to hear from someone objective who knows a lot more about the instrument. If this instrument has a truss rod, its adjustment location is obviously in the soundhole. Are you aware if this model has a truss rod? 

We do carry the Triolians...both made by Regal and Johnson. I do not have one in front of me...however, I know that the Regals do have truss rods and truss rod covers on the peghead...the Johnson is essentially the same as the Regal.

Without removing the cover I can only speculate, however, I know that the 520 model has one. I have checked with my local large music store chain (Sam Ash) and they do not have extension nuts, at least on their website. I would be interested in purchasing an extension nut from your organization, as well as a Stevens slide. If it's ok to convert this instrument to the style I wish to learn how to play, I will do so. Later, I can pick up a good squareneck dobro.

Again, my suggestion would be to retain the integrity of your JR-500 by not converting to SN...if you have an older acoustic guitar, that's not a valuable vintage instrument, you might want to convert it instead. If you'd like to order a conversion nut, along with a Stevens Steel, please call us at ...

I am very interested in your opinion(s) on this matter.

I hope something here has been of assistance to you...Mickey

Thank you,

Rick Arend  

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Subject: new round neck
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:08:50 -0500

Hey Mickey, I've just acquired a roundneck hoping to play it like a regular bluegrass squareneck. That goes to show you how much I know about the things. Could you give me your opinion on the matter? Thank you -Earl

Greetings Earl,

It's most definitely possible to play your roundneck as a squareneck...you only need a squareneck conversion nut...we sell them at 7.95 I believe...you can check with our staff at ...sorry, I'm not answering this e-mail from the store...

It's a very simple conversion: you only need to loosen your strings, slip the non-stationary squareneck conversion nut over the original nut, then tighten the strings...and tune it up to standard squareneck open G tuning: GBDGBD The tension of the strings will keep the conversion nut in place.

Please take note: if the roundneck you picked up is an expensive vintage model, or even a high-end new model, I would suggest not using the conversion nut. It does put quite a bit of tension on the neck and can cause some neck warping. With a cheapie roundneck, this can be easily rectified if it has a truss rod...it's how I got my start on sqaureneck: by converting a roundneck to a squareneck with the conversion nut.

Mickey