Mandola vs Octave Mandolin
Subject: Octave Mandolin or Mandola?
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 01:02:18 +1300
Hi All at FOTW!
Greetings David,
First, I'd like to say how informative your site is!
Thanks so much for tuning in...
I can't figure out what exactly the differences are between an octave mandolin and a mandola. My knowledge on these instruments is vary limited, and I've only ever seen a mandolin played before.
The main difference that distinguishes these two instruments is the scale length. There are even mandolas and octaves that have the exact same body size (such as offered by Trinity College). The only difference would be the longer neck offered by the octave. The higher end octaves and mandolas, such as made by Weber, also have a difference in the size of the bodies in proportion to the neck length.
Am I right to think that they are all part of the same family, and that the mandolin is the smallest, the octave mandolin the larger one, with the mandola somewhere in between? How exactly do they relate to each other in regard to tuning?
Yes, they're all part of the mandolin family. Yes, they stair-step in size from the mandolin, to the mandola, to the octave, to the mandocello, and to the largest of them all mandobass. These mandolin family instruments were very popular in mandolin orchestras in the early part of the 19th century. Today, you'll mostly hear the octave and mandola applied within Celtic context. I personally use both the octave and mandola for a variety of genres including, pop, jazz, rock, etc. I believe these are as versatile as the mandolin in every way imaginable.
I already play the guitar, and I love the sound of these mandolin type instruments. (I have viewed many of the video samples on the FOTW site.) Being used to the larger fretboard of a guitar and bass, I feel the mandolin is just a bit small for me right now. However, I may later decide to try the mandolin. Also, I am a fan of bluegrass music and other related music. Though eventually I would like to play in a bluegrass setting, I will probably be playing with little or no accompaniment for now. If I do end up playing in a bluegrass band it will probably be on the guitar, banjo I am going to start learning, or I may well have moved to mandolin by then.
With all this in mind, which out of the octave mandolin and a mandola would you suggest I consider the most?
My suggestion would be to go straight to the octave...the fingerboard is far closer to the feel of a guitar. The tuning will be relative to mandolin too...so, when you do pick up the mandolin, you'll already know the fingerboard language.
The octave will also be the instrument of preference when playing unaccompanied. The lower end carries well for supporting the melodies played. Mandola is closer to the tonality of a mandolin.
Mandola Tuning: C G D A (a fourth below the mandolin)
Octave Tuning: G D A E (an octave lower than mandolin...with exact same intervals and notes as the mandolin)
BTW: Mickey, is there an instrument on your site that you can't/don't play?
I'd love to learn other string instruments, unfortunately, I'm having a hard time keeping up with my current arsenal. My most recent instrument I've picked up is the violin/fiddle ... I started on violin in the 5th grade and picked it up off and on over the years...probably the most challenging of all...I believe this is my last leg on my multi-instrumental journey.
I always wanted to learn hammered dulcimer...and then there those oddball instruments like the uke (which has a completely different tuning than anything else I play). I love how Paul McCartney used the uke in Ram...Time is of the essence...
There is really some relativeness to most instruments I play...for instance, within the mandolin family, at least all the intervals are in fifths....which is relative to the violin. The banjo and dobro are tuned exactly the same...so, when you break it down, it becomes more manageable than imagined.
And, it sounds like, you may be on the same multi-instrumental journey...maybe some this will give you impetus to follow through...I have never really mastered any one instrument; however, let me say, I've had a great time trying!
Keep on Pickin', Mickey
David
New Zealand
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:02:04 -0600
Subject: mandola
Hi. I am interested in buying a mandola, but I would like to clarify a
few things beforehand. What is the difference exactly in a mandola and
an octave mandola?
The main difference is that the octave has a longer scale neck...this, of course, is the reason it can be tuned an octave lower than mandolin. The mandola is tuned at CGDA...which is a fifth/fourth lower than mandolin...the octave is tuned at GDAE and octave lower than mandolin (hence its name).
I am looking into an instrument to play along with a
guitar or two and sometimes a mandolin.
The octave is perfect for this...it also can be more effectively played as a solo instrument because of its lower tuning. It also makes the perfect harmony to the mandolin due to its lower tuning...it can make a great back-up instrument for both traditional mandolin and vocals.
I probably would not play that
many solos on it and maybe a few songs for our church where singing
will be involved. I already play the guitar but it is getting a little
boring. What would be a good choice for a beginner mandola player and
what brand would you reccomend?
The best values for both mandola and octave are the Johnsons and the Trinity Colleges. These are all solid wood instruments that offer a nice resonant mellow tone. These are not designed for projection and volume like an archtop octave or mandola. However, the archtop is cost prohibitive and would be something to graduate to...not something to start out on...
I have a friend who recently bought a
fylde mandola, but I believe he said that it has 10 strings, with the
extra 2 added to the lower strings, but I am not positive. Anyway, he
says he loves it and I am wondering where I could possibly be able to
find one.
I believe these are more commonly found with independent builders from Scotland...I haven't seen any readily available in the states.
Also, is there a certain name for that 10 string mandola?
I've heard them addressed as citterns...but am unsure....for, I believe the cittern has a longer scale length.
There are no music stores here in Memphis that carry Mandolas that I
am aware of, so I am looking at the online-order thing but I really
would like to hear the instrument played and see it before I purchase
it. Thanks for your time. mark
You can hear some of our mandolas and octaves on our online samplers page...
For video samplers, on most instruments we carry:
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page319.htm
Hope this helps...Mickey
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 03:12:46 -0700
Subject: Folk of the Wood's Acoustic Online Store Feedback
What the heck is the diff between an octave mandolin and a mandola?
The main difference is the scale length of the neck. The longer neck accommodates a thicker gauge string and lower tuning. It's the opposite with the shorter scale of the mandola. Hence the tuning on the Octave is exactly one octave lower than mandolin: G D A E. The tuning on the Mandola is one fourth lower than mandolin: C G D A. Both are still tuned in fifths...so, you're given the same intervals as the mandolin or violin family. If you're looking for a full voice, or an instrument to play with one guitar or by itself, the Octave is the way to go...the Mandola makes for a better ensemble instrument. Both work well within Celtic settings.
Is the tuning and strings of a tenor banjo the same as a mandola?
The tuning is the same...the strings are different...and the scale length is also different. The Tenor banjo only requires 4 strings...the Mandola requires 8 strings. Because there are only 4 strings on the Tenor, the scale length can be slightly longer without any added tension...the 8 strings increases the tension on the neck twofold...therefore, the shorter scale length allows the higher tuning of C G D A without too much more added stress on the neck.
I just discovered your website and am very impressed. We should do business in the future
Thanx, Big Frank
Thanks...please stay tuned with us...Mickey
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:09:55 EDT
Subject: Help
Greetings Chas,
Your home page has been extremely helpfull and possibly you can help me in my ignorance.
I'd be glad to assist if I can:
I play tenor banjo CGDA , last year I had a ten minute intruduction to what was called a Mandola although it was tuned differently from my banjo it was in fifths and felt good.
A mandola should be the same tuning as the tenor: C G D A You might have been playing another type of mandolin family instrument...such as the octave mandolin...
I have been looking at Mandolas and am getting thouroughly confused. It appears that all the instruments shown in the pictures are really just mandolins.
I'm not sure which ones you're looking at...unless it's the Weber section...all mandolas are slightly larger than mandolins with a longer neck scale length...so, yes, they're entirely different than a mandolin in dimension and scale length...
I understand that a Mandola and the Octave mandolin are the same instrument, the Mandocello also has the tuning I want but in various pictures it is difficult to judge the compartive sizes.
I believe pictures can be deceiving...if you put them side by side, it's very obvious that there's a stair-step in size from the mandolin, to the mandola, to the octave mandolin.
== Let me put it this way, a tenor banjo Nut width 1.1/8 -- lenth of nut to first fret 1.1/8 distance from nut to 12th fret 11" . My total playable fingerboar (19 Frets) is 15.25" == I specifically mention the length from nut to 1st wire fret for as a fingerboard gets longer the frets get further apart and a Plectrum or 5 string banjo is too long a "stretch" for me when playing in the first position==
My question:- what would you recommend as a Mandola type instrument that would have fingering sizes closest to the tenor banjo. I realise and of require that the width at the nut is greater to allow for the double string fingering. I would also prefer if it tuned CGDA == Hope I sound clear and thank you in advance for letting me pick your braid,
If you prefer the CGDA tuning, I'd have to recommend the mandola itself...and yes, the frets are not as far apart as on a tenor...however, it should still come somewhat close and out of all of the mandolin family, I would say the mandola comes closest to being similar to the traditional tenor banjo. I personally play the tenor banjo, mandola, octave and mandocello...and really do not have any problem crossing over from instrument to instrument...
On the other side, if you're looking for the longer fret spacing and the wider neck feel, and you don't mind working in another tuning, then the octave may serve you well....it's also tuned in fifths: G D A E...an octave lower than standard mandolin...
You might check with our online lessons section and our video samplers to gain an idea of the tonal ranges and application...
Mickey
regards Chas
Subject: Mandola Versus Octave Mandolin
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:03 +0000
Mickey,
Greetings Michael,
I am considering buying either a mandola or an Octave Mandolin.
Do you think it is easier to reach chords on the mandola or the octave mandolin?
or is there not much in it.
I believe it's easier to reach chored on the mandola...in fact, some of the very same chords on mandolin are easily reached on mandola and have to be reconverted on octave...be sure to check out our free chord charts on octave mandolin...
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page3.htm
Also, when accompanying one singer, with no other instruments involved, which of the two instruments would be better?
The octave would be better as a solo instrument...its lower voicing adds much more support...be sure to check out our video samplers on mandola and octave...of which both offer their own distinct solo voice.
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page319.htm
Or, which of the two are more popular, for folk/celtic music, are they also effective for ordinary/contemporary/popular music, (Are they versatile)?
I believe the octave is far more popular than the mandola...at least we sell quite a few more octaves...I own both myself...and find that they both offer me a longer tonal range...I feel I would be at a loss without one or the other...Mickey
Great website!
Regards
Michael.
Subject: Re: octave mando question Johnson MA-450 vs 550
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:23:08 -0500
mickey,
thanks for the quick reply.
i have one more question about octave mandolas. i cruised your site looking for this answer, and it's probably there, but i couldn't find it. sorry.
if the johnson and trinity college octave mandolas have a 20" scale, why couldn't a person get hold of any mandola with a 20" scale and string it GDAE instead of CDGA?
cj
Greetings CJ,
Trinity College Octave Scale Length: 20 3/8" Scale
Trinity College Mandola Scale Length: 17" Scale
The Octaves and Mandolas have two separate scale lengths...this allows the Mandola to be tuned to a higher pitch without any added stress to the neck.
There may be a Mandola out there with a 20" scale...and if so, it certainly should be easy enough to tune to Octave tuning without any rattling...however, I can't imagine the CGDA tuning on a scale length of 20" since the tension would be immense to get it up to pitch.
Hope this answers the question for you...sorry if there's any typos on scale lengths on our site...
At your disposal, Mickey
Subject: octave mandolin as a mandola
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:34:53 -0500
I'm a pretty active mandolin player in the San Antonio area, and I've been wanting to get some other mandolin family instruments, especially for recording purposes. I've looked at a lot of mandolas and octave mandolins on the web, and it has occurred to me that an octave could easily double as a mandola simply by using a capo. How does the tone of an octave (say a Trinity College instrument) that has been capoed to C compare to a mandola by the same maker? We don't have any stores stocking these types of instruments in our area, so I can't claim to have tried this conversion, but theoretically it makes sense.
What are your thoughts? Steve
Greetings Steve,
Yes, this is true...by placing the capo at the fifth fret, you would essentially have a Mandola tuning. And, in your case, where you're looking for versatility in one instrument, as a utility recording artist, this would fill your needs well.
However, there is a slight difference in tonality that happens when adding a capo...to the average listener it would be inaudible...to the seasoned player, there would be a difference just the same.
The body size of the Trinity College is the same on both the Octave and the Mandola. If you do try this, please report back to me your results. I'm sure many of our readers would be interested in how well this works out for you.
At your disposal, Mickey
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:47:29 EST
Hi, Mickey
what is the difference between the TC octave mandolin model 325 and the TC mandola model 275....same price....
but what about size, sound and range????
Vince
Greetings Vince,
Glad to assist...
The TC Octave and the TC Mandola differs as follows:
They both have an entirely different scale length which is really the only difference between the two instruments structurally. The scale length also will affect the distance between frets...The body size and neck dimensions are completely equal otherwise. Scale length is determined by distance from the saddle to the nut. Because the Octave has a longer scale length, the instrument can be tuned lower giving it a deeper voicing than the mandola. The mandola's scale length falls between a mandolin and an octave giving it a deeper voice than the mandolin and a higher voice than the octave.
The tuning for the mandola is CGDA; whereas, the tuning for octave is GDAE (an octave lower than mandolin)...if you're already accustomed to playing guitar, my recommendation would be to first try the octave mandolin. The frets have more distance between each other (especially at the first positions)...offering you more of a guitar feel. And, if you're looking for the higher pitch of a mandolin at a later date, mandolin will fall into place since the tuning is the same other than being an octave higher. In other words, once you learn all the chording and fretting for certain keys on the octave, you'll find the transition to the mandolin even easier (even though the neck and distance between frets are smaller). This would be more of a stair-step process as opposed to jumping directly into mandolin after years of playing guitar. Additionally, you'll find yourself a multi-instrumentalist with a variety of voicings to choose from after following this stair-step process.
Hope the above helps...Mickey
Visit Our Online Store