Bouzouki vs. Octave Mandolin Questions
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:50:22 -0600
Subject: Re: bouzouki or octave mandolin ?????
Hello,
I really enjoy your site and I hope you will not mind me asking you a few questions.
I have an interest in playing the bouzouki or octave mandolin in an acoustic quartet at my church. We take contemporary christian songs (steven curtis chapman, casting crowns, third day, etc.) and play them pure acoustically. We are not trying to accomplish a bluegrass sound. We stay as close to the original melody, but all acoustic. I currently play 6 string guitar. We have a 12 string guitar, mandolin and bass. Do you think a bouzouki or octave mandolin would fit in this mix. There are some songs that I think dropping one of the guitars and putting a different sound would be unique. I would be playing it mostly rhythm and maybe a few lead licks as I can learn to become a better lead player. Do you think one of these instruments would work? If so, which one? Do you sell any?
Thanks for any advice and I look forward to hearing back from you.
John P.
Greetings John,
Of course an octave mandolin would fit perfectly in the mix you're referring ... more so than even a zook. I've always believed in variety in an ensemble band ... and, guitars are fine however, an audience's attention is gravitated when introducing unique instruments. Since you have a 12-string, the bouzouki may mix too closely for they have octave strings similar to a 12-string. The octave mandolin has a very nice range from low to high and can fill a void superbly both as a rhythm and melody instrument.
I currently am not selling instruments and am dedicated to my publishing company. I do have the only instructional video available (that I know of) for octave mandolin at: http://www.mysticwestproducts.com ... and, I also have free online instructions for octave along with a downloadable pdf for octave mandolin at: http://www.folkofthewood.com/Octave_Mandolin_Lessons.html.
All my best in your research,
Mickey Cochran
Folk of the Wood
Mystic West Products
Acoustic Music Instruction
PO Box 2810
Alto, New Mexico 88312
http://www.folkofthewood.com
http://www.mysticwestproducts.com
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 14:42:50 -0600
Subject: bouzouki or octave mandolin
Mickey,
Thanks for your advice. Will the octave mandolin take away from the mandolin or do the two mix well together.
Are there any particular brands that you would suggest I look at?
Thanks again,
John
Mandolin and Octave blend perfectly well. That's why they used to have mandolin orchestras throughout the US of which had both instruments utilized to good effect.
As far as brands, you might consider an octave built by an independent luthier ... There some very reasonably priced ones available today.
http://www.octavemandolin.com/models.html
The Garrison was reasonably priced ... however, since they've been acquired by Gibson, I'm not too sure anymore.
Here are some Octave Mandolin online lessons for you:
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page5298.htm
All my best,
Mickey Cochran
Folk of the Wood
Mystic West Products
Acoustic Music Instruction
PO Box 2810
Alto, New Mexico 88312
http://www.folkofthewood.com
http://www.mysticwestproducts.com
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:29:40 -0500
Subject: Bouzouki or octave
Hey Mickey,
I love your site. I spend most of my free time looking and listening.
Thanks so much for tuning in Quentin...
I had a question though. I play both the guitar and the mandolin. I am very
interested in getting more into celtic style music. I was wondering what would
be the better instrument between the octave mando or the zook? I realize the
scale length of the zook is longer, but is it longer than the guitar?
Yes, it does feel longer than guitar...it's a very difficult reach in the open position. To me, the octave feels closer to guitar...now, I've never really measured the fret distances physically...this is just what it feels like to me.
I believe you will like the octave for its easier stretch...and, you'll also like the lower tonal range for filling in on the bottom end...especially as a solo instrument. It's a nice choice of contrast in tonal difference if taking it up as a second instrument to the mandolin. I consider it to be a more traditional celtic instrument than the zook. I still feel the zook is more of a Greek instrument...which, of course, it is...makes for a great celtic instrument in its own right...only, it doesn't come from the tradition of the mandolin family.
Hope this helps...Mickey
I've read
a lot about the advantages and the disadvantages. I was just wondering what you
thought. I like the sounds of both of them. Well any info would be great.
Thanks
Quentin
Subject: octave mandolin vs. bouzouki
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:50:42 -0500
Hello,
Greetings Kevin,
I'm glad to assist:
Just a quick question......i'm an irish fiddle player somewhat interested in either a bouzouki or octave mando, but i don't know which to go for. Only one shop in town has a bouzouki, so i can't really compare/contrast them. I almost got my hands on an octave mando in Mt. View, but was swiftly reprimanded for touching the merchandise (i'm still somewhat bitter about that). Anyway, is there a big difference in volume/sound or is it just a matter of scale?
It's really both a matter of scale length and type of strings used. Most bouzoukis use the octave strings (in the G and D pairs having an unwound high string with the wound string) on the bass end. This gives the bass end a 12-string guitar sparkle. I personally prefer the octave for I like the double-bass strings...for back-up and harmonic support, the octave seems to be more supportive overall. And, yet, it also works well as a lead instrument. I believe the leads on the bouzouki, with the octave bass strings, has more definition...which is to be expected since there are treble strings above the bass. Otherwise, the body styles, such as the size of the body and the depth are the same...depending on the brand of course.
Come on down...we'll let you try out anything in stock...we just don't display our high-end instruments...notwithstanding, you only have to let us know your interest, and we'll pull it out of the warehouse for you to try out.
If you have to order through us by mail order, remember, you have our 100% trade-up value...in essence, this will allow you to try out the octave, or zouk, for 30-90 days...and you can still trade up towards another octave or zouk without losing any initial investment...other than shipping costs...
Let me know how else I might assist...Mickey
It seems like the bodies are about the same size, just the neck is different. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
kevin
Subject: Octave mandolin or bouzouki
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:56:27 -0500
Mr. Cochran,
Greetings Rick,
I have just discovered the sound of the octave mandolin and I love it.
Yes...you have found yourself a mutual fan of the Octave...it's certainly an instrument that seems to have been forgotten over the years...there seems to be a renaissance of interest that's welling up...for, we're sending out quite a few octaves now almost weekly...there are many joining the octave ranks...and, personally, I hope to see many more!
I have been reading up on them on your website. I would appreciate some advice on which to purchase. I play banjo, both bluegrass and frailing. I play all types of music, I like most styles. I would like to start a Christian folk band. With that background, would you recommend the octave mandolin or the bouzouki? Thanks in advance.
I would recommend the octave as the one instrument that would lend itself well to your folk band...the zouk would work too, only, I believe the Octave would give your band more bottom end and drive. And, keep in mind, you may find yourself taking on other mandolin family instruments such as the mandolin and mandola...with the octave under your belt, you'll find the transition somewhat seamless.
Hope this helps, Mickey
Rick Freeman
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:15:28 -0600
Mr. Cochran,
One more question: I'm an acoustic guitar player. I took up the mandolin approx 2 years ago and it is now my favorite instrument. I'm interested in an octave mando or bouzouki. Is the bouzouki longer than a guitar? I'm fairly short and don't have a long reach. From the web site it appears an octave mando would suit me best.
Thanks again, Scott A. Dinnel
Greetings Scott,
Glad to assist:
If you feel you have a short reach, I wouldn't recommend the bouzouki...it truly is a very long scale neck...and if you want to apply some of your mandolin chords, that you already know, I'd recommend the octave...yes, it's still a long-scale neck, and yes, it would still be difficult to play a lot of the mandolin chords, even so, it is more relative to the mandolin. We have an octave mandolin chord chart offered up for free on our website...if you get a chance be sure to check it out. You'll see that some of the chords are played exactly the same, while a few would be new inversions in relation to open-position mandolin.
To gain an idea of what these sound like, be sure to check out our video sampler pages:
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page319.htm
We also have a comprehensive video on playing octave at:
http://www.folkofthewood.com/page645.htm
These resources may assist you in making a decision on your next purchase...
Keep on Pickin', Mickey
Subject: Re: Trade In
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:25:32 -0500
Greetings Again:
I'm new to bouzoukis so am unfamiliar with the string gauges that are
acceptable for various tunings. I understand that Octave Mando tuning is
normally GDAE and Manadocello is CGDA.
Yes, the Mandocello is tuned to CGDA...however, it also has a longer scaled neck that will accommodate the tuning. This tuning is one octave lower than a Mandola...with a much shorter scale...which makes it quite a bit easier to tune up to the higher octave CGDA.
Can the TM-375 be tuned to CGDA with the PF-285's and still sound decent?
What you'll have is lots of string rattle...now, these already have a characteristic string rattle to them when tuned to standard pitch. Imagine lowering the pitch another fifth, as from GDAE to CGDA. You'll have more rattle than tone...so, nope, it will not work even with different string gauges...
One of the reasons I chose the bouzouki over the octave mando was the
presumed flexibility to tune a bit lower if I wanted to. This doesn't
necessarily mean I expect to tune this low, just considering the range of
reasonable options available. Is this reasonable? It's all new tuning to me
so I don't have a predetermined preference for GDAE vs. CGDA vs. whatever
works. How low can you go?
My suggestion would be to stick to the octave tuning of GDAE on an octave mandolin...these sound nice and full and can easily support themselves in a solo setting.
Assuming I tune it GDAE, what string gauges should be used (i.e. what
make/model of strings will you using on my order)? I'll need to know
eventually so I can replace the strings with the proper type. Assuming we go
this route, how low can they be tuned and not present playability issues?
I'm somewhat concerned that really light gauge strings might not deliver a
decent bottom end.
On the Bouzouki, in standard GDAE tuning, use the designated GHS brand phosphor bronze strings...and, purchase two sets so that you can use the round wound bass strings in unison...and save the treble octaves for replacing the Es. If you're planning on tuning lower, you might get away with a thicker gauge string...however, keep in mind, there will be substantial string rattle.
On Octave, GHS PF285s are the only way to go...I have used these extensively and found them to be as responsive as I'd ever need. The gauges on these are from high to low: 12-22-32-44...
Yikes! Should I reconsider and get a Johnson MA-400 instead?
The Johnson and Trinity College are essentially the same in construction, bracing and scale length...it would be up to your personal taste on the inlay differences...for a deeper tone, you might consider the MA-500 which does have a deeper body...and, therefore, seems to have a deeper bass end...may not have the projection of the MA-400 though...
My suggestion would be to go with a MA-450, or better yet the 550, Octave Mandolin...This way you're not sacrificing the low-end response you're looking for...since the design itself, in the neck scale length, is meant for the thicker gauge strings at the GDAE tuning...
If you're truly looking for a low, low end response, I'd have to recommend a Mandocello.
Hope this helps, Mickey
Your guidance is greatly appreciated!
Kind regards,
Wayne Tilley
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:40:01 -0700
Having a tough time deciding between the bouzouki and the octave mandolin! I really appreciate the videos, BTW.
Here's my question: I really like the deeper sound of the bouzouki vs. the octave, but I was a bit put off by the octave tuning in the bass strings ( a bit too bright ). Is it possible to use matched pairs on the two lowest strings, or is this bad for the instrument? I have seen Irish bands with this type of tuning and I prefer the sound.
Thanks In Advance!
---JC
Greetings JC,
Thanks for the kind words regarding our website videos...
Yes, the Bouzouki, on the low end, can also be tuned in unison similar to an Octave...You'll want to use a lighter gauge string to ensure that there's no added tension on the neck...
If you really like the sound of the unison strings on the bass end, I believe you would love the Octave...in fact, the body size of an Octave and the Bouzouki are exactly the same...the only thing that differs between these two instruments is the scale length...therefore, with the proper tuning, a deep tone should be achievable on either instrument. For the deepest tone I've heard to date on an Octave, or a Zook, I would recommend the Johnson MA-500 or MA-550...this particular body style, not only offers a unique medieval look, but also has the deepest body well I've seen...
Hope this helps...Mickey
Subject: Octave/Zouk
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:37:49 -0400
Hello, guys!! I love your sight and corresponded with you once and loved the response I got --- answered my question!
Glad to have been of assistance...
Well,
I've been saving up the dough to get myself a Johnson Octave Mando or 'Zouk, and for a while was thinking the scale length of the 'zouk is just too long, that I'd be more comfortable with the octave - easier to move around on & quicker, and not sacrificing any tone or depth of tone.
You're correct...the body size and tonal range are the same. The zouk would offer the octave high string on the lower end...so, playing lead lines on the bass end will have more definition than an Octave. However, the sacrifice would be that the lower end wouldn't come close to the unison-gauged strings of the Octave.
BUT, is this true? I'm interested in playing along with a guitar or two, doing single line melodies AND doing solo sort of accompaniment to singing ala Andy Irvine, and strummed chords, etc.
For supporting your voice and other lead instruments, the octave will more than suffice...the zouk would be relatively weak in supporting other lead instruments or vocals. When playing solo, without any other instrument, the Octave again supercedes. The octave has substantial bottom end and works well as a solo instrument.
Without the advantage of "testing" these instruments against each other, I guess my question is what would I gain with the 'zouk, or lose with the Octave?
The zouk: for lead playing on the lower register, due to the octave-gauged strings, you will have more definition...it will cut through very well as a lead instrument.
The octave: more versatile as a solo instrument...better for supporting vocals and other lead instruments....still works well as a solo instrument...on the lower register, since the G chorus and D chorus have unison-gauged strings, you'll find less brightness and definition as you would on a zouk. I personally love the lower end sound of the Octave mandolin. It would be subjective to personal taste....
I know the difference in scale length (20.5 - 26.5), but does the 'zouk have any "deeper" tone?
The octave would have a deeper tone due to the unison-gauged lower end choruses. The body styles, construction, depth and dimensions are the same...the deeper tone on the octave would only be attributed to the string differences.
Would I be comfortable accompanying myself alone singing with the octave?
Most definitely...the octave is a very full sounding instrument. I hope to put together a solo endeavor using only the octave mandolin throughout the work.
And playing along with a guitar or two? Or should I just bite the bullet and get the 'zouk, learning to stretch and sacrifice a little speed.
You sound like a candidate for the Octave Mandolin to me...
Let me know how I might further assist...Mickey
I assume there's plenty of playability on the octave's frets above the 10th as well.
ANY info or advice much, much, much appreciated, Bryan, Mickey, whomever reads this!! it's a hard decision for me and I'd hate to be considering trading one for the other once I got it.
Thanks a lot guys,
Again!!!
-zac aulson
I've got all the info on ordering and trade-ins, markups, etc., btw!!
Date: 4/10/02
Subject: Re: Mando Cafe Octave/Zook Questions
Is Russ Godfrey is the consummate Octaver? What are the real differences between the Bouzouki and the Octave:
Russ is a tremendous player and exponent of the Octave; if you haven't heard Mandolirium, you might enquire with him on getting a copy. That CD alone will fully inspire you to become an Octaver.
The OM has a shorter scale length (from nut to bridge) than a bouzouki. The Bouzouki also comes standard with octave strings on the bass side (the D and G strings)...similar to a 12-string guitar. These octave strings add a certain brilliance and definition while playing melody lines on the bass end. The Octave uses the same gauge strings for the D and G chorus strings. Now, both the Octave and Bouzouki can be tuned the same which would be an octave lower than a mandolin. However, there are many tuning variations accepted on both instruments. One of the more common being to tune the E string down to a D: G D A D...which contributes to more of a drone and sounds exceptional when playing Celtic styles...I personally tune both my Octave and Zook to the standard octave below mandolin: G D A E...
The tuning for Bouzouki can vary even further. For my tuning, and the tuning that makes the most sense if you're already a mando player: G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string A/E are tuned in unison...This would be similar to an octave mando...Now, tuning for the Bouzouki in Greek music is traditionally tuned: C/F/A/D Tuning and for Irish Bouzouki tunings are D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A...
The Octave would be slightly easier to play than a Zook. If you'll consider the scale length on the Zook being quite a bit more, the stretch for us mandolinists can be unruly. For that matter, the stretch on an Octave can also be unmanageable...just the same, and if you're used to mandolin, it's still an easier scale length to contend with than a Zook.
These are both versatile instruments and can be applied to most any musical setting. Both the Zook and the Octave are in evolutionary flux. It's only an artist's vision that will bring these two instruments into genres which will reveal their limitless potential.
If you're already a mandolinist, and you're looking for a solo voiced instrument to start out on, the Octave will serve you well. If you're a guitarist, I'd recommend the Zook over the Octave.
Keep on Pickin', Mickey
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:15:58 -0600
Subject: Re: phoned in octave FAQ
Mick,
Can a (Trinity College) octave mandolin be restrung/retuned for bouzouki playing?
Yes, although, you can not tune the Octave Mandolin as low as a Bouzouki since the scale length is shorter...the shorter the scale length, the higher the tuning pitch; the longer the scale length, the lower the tuning pitch.
I, personally, tune the bouzouki the same range as an octave without too much problem; although, the D octave string becomes slightly too taut and can sometimes break...if you attempt to tune the octave to some of the lower range tunings found on the bouzouki, you will more than likely encounter buzzing.
You can string the octave similar to a bouzouki, by adding unwound strings for the third and fourth choruses of strings (D and G)...this way you can get the brightness out of the low end...although, it's not recommended to tune an octave any lower than the standard octave tuning or you will encounter buzzing.
Hope this helps...Mickey
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:32:58 -0600
Hi Kirk...we're glad to assist you further:
What are the scale dimensions for both of the Johnson zook and octave instruments?
Approx: 20 1/8" scale for the JNSN Octave
Approx: 26 3/8" scale for the JNSN Bouzouki
In regards to learning, can you use mandolin methods/tabs for both instruments?
Yes, you can...but do not depend on them solely in any way. Be prepared to adapt different fingerings for a more manageable stretch. For instance, the scale length of a mandolin being so much shorter makes for less of a stretch for both chords and melody. We've developed an open-chord position chart, which will soon be on our site for a free pdf download, that works for both octaves and zooks. These chords are designed for these instruments, in mando tuning, and provide a manageable approach without the impossible stretches that the mandolin chords impose.
Are there significant differences in the ways the instruments are played?
Not really...when using a flatpick, the technique of the picking hand remains consistent across the slate. Now, depending on the tuning of each instrument and the scale length of the neck, the approach changes significantly on the fretting hand. The fundamentals are still the same...and music theory itself remains static for all instruments.
Why do you say that the octave is more versatile?
I've personally found the octave to fit many styles of music; whereas, I've only heard the zook played in Greek and Celtic. Even so, I'm sure it can be played within most any genre...but the tone is truly innately characteristic of the zook...The octave has a tonal quality that can be deceiving within most any genre of music.
How does the octave tuning on the bass side of the bouzouki affect playing in regards to lead and rhythm?
I tune both the zook and octave the same: one octave below mandolin: GDAE
I've found the zook carries the melody stronger on the lower end due to the chorus strings being tuned one octave higher. This seems to bring out a higher pitch with lots of clarity of tone...even so, I love the octave's lower end since the double-bass strings bring out lots of powerful bass.
Are either of them better for lead versus rhythm?
They both are effective for lead and rhythm...although, the octave would have more bottom end for rhythm fills and the zook would have more presence when playing lead...again, only as they compare with each other. Ultimately, they both have plenty of presence in lead or rhythm application.
You mentioned the reach being somewhat of an issue with the bouzouki, assuming you use the same tuning as on a mandolin, can you still use the same chord forms?
As we discussed in an earlier reference, the mandolin has many chord inversions that would be humanly impossible to recreate on either the octave or zook. Even so, you would only create a new inversion that would fit the scale of either the octave or zook. We've done this by developing chord charts specifically designed for octave and zook. Please stay tuned on our website for this chart to be freely available for download. In fact, these charts encompass a chapter of our future octave/zook book soon to be published.
Mickey
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:45:46 -0400
I am interested in purchasing/trading for a Johnson MA-500 bouzouki or possibly a MA-550 octave mandolin. Perhaps you can better clarify the difference for me. I have a mandolin but am actually a banjo player. I rarely play my mandolin, my primary complaint being its size. Thanks for your help in advance. Kirk Withrow
Greetings again Kirk,
In answer to your questions regarding the differences between the bouzouki and octave:
1. The Bouzouki has a longer scale and offers octave tuning on the chorus strings of the bass side.
2. The Octave is closer in semblance to a mandolin than a bouzouki.
3. Both are commonly used in celtic settings, although, the octave appears to me to be more versatile. The octave is also quite a bit easier to learn on due to the lesser stretch to reach chords and melodies.
Hope the above helps...Mickey
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:50:07 -0600
Hello,
I am a hobbyist new (6 mo.) player of the mandolin. I
have a Johnson MA-120 which suits me fine but I would
occasionally like to play something with a deeper
woodier tone.
That said, I have been considering a Trinity College
Bouzouki or Octave Mandolin. I have been able to get
hold of a couple of Bouzouki's from a dealer who
insisted that they are really no different from an
octave. So my question is, what is the difference,
aside from the 6 1/2 inches of neck. Mark Brockman
Greetings Mark, There is quite a bit of difference between the two:
The Octave's neck is far more manageable on the stretches and being able to play a full chord similar to the same fingering of a mandolin. I've found the bouzouki to demand far more stretch to reach a melody that would normally be easier on an Octave mandolin or a traditional Mando. Now, if you're a guitar player, the bouzouki may feel more comfortable on the stretch...Additionally, the bouzouki is strung with entirely different gauge strings than an Octave. For instance, both our Trinity College and our Johnson Bouzoukis are strung with octave choruses on the 3rd and 4th sets; whereas, on the Octave, the choruses are strung with the same gauges. The tunings on both the Octave and Bouzouki also differ.
Octave Mando tuning is exactly one octave lower than a mandolin within the following sequence: G D A E tuned in fifths from the lower G to the higher E.
The tuning for bouzouki can vary:
G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string
A/E are tuned in unison...
This would be similar to an octave mando...
Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D
Tuning for Irish bouzouki is D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A...the octave tuning on bouzouki also works well...Mickey
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:27:43 -0600
I tuned it up & it's great. Thanks again. Now to teach myself how to play the thing. Is Octave mando tuning CGDA, like a mandola?
Octave Mando tuning is exactly one octave lower than a mandolin within the following sequence: G D A E tuned in fifths from the lower G to the higher E.
The tuning for bouzouki can vary:
G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string
A/E are tuned in unison...
This would be similar to an octave mando...
Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D
Tuning for Irish bouzouki is traditionally D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A...I also like the octave mando tuning for Irish tunes...Mickey
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:16:34 -0600
Hi - I'm looking into these instruments. I was wondering whether there are any problems associated with using an Octave Mandolin but stringing
it in octaves like the Bouzouki. (I'm interested in the Bouzouki sound but the shorter scale of the Octave Mandolin).
Thanks, Jim Kirby
Hello Jim,
We've had a couple of customers who have strung their Octave mandos with unwound octave chorus strings for the D and G...They said that it works fine. I, personally, have not tried this...I certainly cannot see any reason why it should not work...it would give the Octave Mando another voicing that would be contributory to playing leads on the lower end strings...without a loss of presence.
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:48:32 -0600
Dear Mickey,
Thank you so much for the quick response! Your trade in deal sounds great. I'm interested in an octave mandolin, or mandola. I played a Mid-Missouri mandola, and liked the voicing. I'm wondering if the Trinity College octave mandolin might be a better choice, because of the adjustable truss rod. I have not played one, but they look beautiful. I left a message at your web site about same, so hope you don't double up answers.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Pat Gislason
Hello again Pat,
The Mid Missouri Mandola has more of a mandolin tone than an Octave Mando which sounds very deep...We have them both in stock...a lot would be dependent on how you plan to apply the instrument. For instance, for straight ahead bluegrass fiddle tunes, the mandola would do well...for celtic and powerful unaccompanied, solo style playing, the Octave would do well...Mickey
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:02:24 -0600
HEY Mickey,
MY QUESTION ABOUT THE BOUZOUKI WAS IS IT THE SAME
CHORDS,SCALES ECT. AS THE MANDO? I RECENTLY SAW DERVISH LIVE IN SONORA AND
THESE GUYS COULD PLAY THE BOUZOUKI, FIDLE AND MANDOS !! DON ANDERSON
Hello Don,
Sorry it's taken sooo long to get back with you...I'm now getting 200 s or so a day.
Bouzouki Questions:
If you tune the bouzouki to octave mandolin tuning (how I tune mine), it would have the same chording positions and the same scale patterns as the mandolin...even though the patterns are the same, you'll find yourself using different fingers to reach the same notes as you would on mandolin. I find myself substituting my little finger on the zook, where my third finger would normally play part of a chord or a melody on the mandolin.
Traditional bouzouki tuning:
The tuning for bouzouki can vary:
G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string
A/E are tuned in unison...
This would be similar to an octave mando...
Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D
Tuning for Irish bouzouki is D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A
Let me know if you have any further questions or if I can assist you with anything else...
Mickey Cochran
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:50:01 -0600
I am wondering if it would be a good idea to tune an octave mandolin as I tune my plectrum banjo - C G B D. Do you think this would put too much stress on the instrument? Is this a bad idea? I would appreciate your thoughts on this and perhaps suggestions of string gauges.
Thank you.
-Charles Pascoe
Hello Charles,
I would not recommend tuning the Octave to the CGBD due to the unnecessary stress that would be imposed...
As you know, the Octave is designed to be tuned as an Octave (one octave lower than mandolin)...Now, if you want to match the patterns of your Plectrum, you might consider tuning it to the same intervals as your plectrum:
Plectrum Banjo: C G B D
for the same intervals on an Octave use the following:
G D F# A
The G and D would be the same pitch as the standard Octave tuning...the F# would be two steps above the D and the A would be one fifth above the D...
Here are the only strings I recommend for an Octave mando:
Brand GHS: Phosphor Bronze Retails: 14.95 Your Cost through us: 11.95
Gauges: 12-22-32-44 Loop Ends
Let me know if you have any further questions or if I can assist you with anything else...
Mickey Cochran
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:13:30 -0600
Hello Mickey,
I am interested in buying a bouzouki or octave mandolin; the Johnson instruments you are offering are looking very nice to me and they seem to be worth the price. But as it is nearly impossible to get such an instrument over here in Germany (and have a look at it), I have some questions. I'm not sure if the octave mandolin or the bouzouki would be better for me. The difference between these two instruments is - as far as I could find out - the length of the neck (the bouzouki has a few more frets) and the bouzouki has the two deeper strings tuned in octaves, while the octave mandolin has four pairs of strings tuned identically. For playing rhythm the bouzouki seems to be a little bit better, while the octave mandolin is better for melody playing. Is that right?
Actually, the Bouzouki is probably a better melody instrument due to the octave choruses which add a little more punch and treble on the bass end. The Octave is a tremendous rhythm instrument because of its superb low end; it also makes for a powerful melody instrument if you like a booming, low-end melody. In all actuality, they both will serve well for rhythm and melody...
In that case I would prefer the bouzouki, but is it possible to get it without the octave strings (which bring tuning problems when you are playing higer up on the neck)? It would be great if it was possible to get it with the strings of the octave mandolin.
Yes, you may also string the Bouzouki with unison strings on the low end...although, this will take away from it as the better lead instrument over the Octave...
And: which strings are used? It will be difficult for me to get strings with loop ends in Germany, while ball ends are easily available over here.
We have GHS Bouzouki and Octave strings with ball ends...in fact, we feel that the factory strings are unacceptable and change all strings on bouzoukis and octaves to GHS before they ship.
Is it possible to get it with a pick-up for amplification?
Yes, we install permanent transducers on both Bouzoukis and Octaves...the Pick-Up we use is a Shadow brand that we feel is one of the best on the market (total cost with installation is 95.00). The amp jack is installed at the end pin and is designed to serve well for the strap...we also install an extra strap pin on the heel of the neck per the customer's request.
It would be nice if you could help me with these questions.With many thanks in advance
You're most welcome.
Let me know if you have any further questions or if I can assist you with anything else...
Mickey Cochran
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000
What is the difference in mandolin, octave mandolin and bouzouki? How are they used differently?
1. Octave Mandolin: An Octave offers a nice low range for playing back-up and solo effectively...it's tuned exactly one octave lower than a regular mandolin. The body dimensions of course will also reflect its tonal range...They usually always are manufactured with a round soundhole. Styles of Music: Celtic, Irish Stylings, Ballads, Fiddle Tunes, Some Jazz works well on an octave.. * Round Soundhole * 20 1/8" scale String Gauges: Optional Octave mando strings: Brand GHS: Phosphor Bronze Retails: 14.95 Your Cost: 11.9 Gauges: 12-22-32-44 Loop Ends 2. Bouzouki: Originally a Greek Folk Instrument...adapted by the British Isles for Celtic and Irish music...What truly characterizes the difference on this one is the scale length, gauge of strings utilized and tunings..."Since the bouzouki's introduction to Ireland, it has developed a personality and an Irish identity all its own. The instrument and its unique sound are now part and parcel of Irish music." Styles of Music: Celtic, Greek, Irish Stylings, Ballads, Fiddle Tunes... * Round Soundhole * 26 3/8" Scale The tuning for bouzouki can vary. G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string A/E are tuned in unison... This would be similar to an octave mando... Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D Tuning for Irish bouzouki is D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A 3. Mandolin: A very popular instrument that dates back to the Lute of Medieval times...the mandolin has crossed over into just about every genre of music ever played. It was so popular in the early 1900s, that there was a Mandolin Orchestra just about in every major city... Styles of Music: Every style of music including rock, jazz and especially bluegrass. * Round Soundhole or F-Hole * 14" Scale Tuning: G/D/A/E in fifths-
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000
What is the difference between an octive mandolin and a bouzouki? I know the differences (longer neck scale, octive strings vs double strings) but what are the player considerations for different length necks etc. Most people on recordings say bouzouki even though I can't hear the octive strings.?.?.
The differences lie in their scale, string gauges, tonality, tuning, and approach to playing. If you're considering purchasing one or the other, the decision would based on your own playing background. For instance, if you already play mandolin, you'll find it a comfortable transition to pick up the Octave Mandolin. The tuning for bouzouki can vary: G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string A/E are tuned in unison...This would be similar to an octave mando... Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D Tuning for Irish bouzouki is D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A The nice thing about the Octave Mandolin is that it's usually always tuned one octave lower than a mandolin...in 5ths.
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000
The Mando, for some reason, doesn't like being strung GDAE. Whenever I put tension on the 'E", somewhere between A and C, I lose the string.
I hope you're not attempting to string it at the same pitch of a mandolin. It's only designed to be tuned and Octave lower than the standard tuning of a mandolin. I tune these all the time before shipping them and haven't had the problem you're describing. Be sure that the E string is the same pitch as the high E string of a guitar. It helps to have an Electronic Tuner to assure you're at the right octave.
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999
How do think the Trinity College models compare to U.S.-made instruments? Are the ones you mentioned entry-level models?
The Trinity College models are solidly built and hold their tuning very well...there are many independent luthiers who also manufacture Octave mandos...these can also be superb although usually costly...so far, my personal experience has been that the bouzoukis and octaves seem to be a little more fragile coming from independents...I'm sure this is a generalization though...
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999
Hello there from Germany, I have a really nice hand-made bouzouki and am looking for a good-quality pickup. Can you recommend any to me? Would also appreciate price info and details on how to order. Best regards, John Barden
Hello John, Any decent piezo-type pick-up (transducer) will work well. Be sure to purchase one that offers temporary mounting so that you can find your best position for tonal response...and then have it permanently installed. Additionally, you might also consider a transducer that offers both volume and tone control such as the Shadow. We have these in stock, but I suspect you should be available to find one at your local music store. Hope this helps...
Mickey Cochran
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999
Mickey, What is the difference between an octave mandolin and a bouzouki? They both are tuned in the same range, G/D/A/E but the bouzouki has a longer scale. Is there a difference in the sound? What music is appropriate for each instrument. Also, is there a mandolin like instrument that fits the viola range, C/G/D/A? Mark Wardenburg
Hello Mark, The Octave mando is tuned one octave lower than a mandolin: GDAE
The tuning for bouzouki can vary:
G/D are tuned in octaves...similar to a 12-string...A/E are tuned in unison...This would be similar to an octave mando...
Now, tuning for the bouzouki in Greek music is tuned: C/F/A/D
Tuning for Irish bouzouki is D/A/D/G or D/A/D/A
There is a definite difference in tonal quality between the bouzouki and the octave mando...
The instrument in the mando family that falls in the viola category is the Mandola tuned: CGDA
Hope this helps...Let me know if you have any further questions or if I can assist you with anything else...
Mickey Cochran
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999
Mickey,
Thanks a lot for responding so quickly. It sounds like a really great deal, they look beautiful and I'm about ready to take you up on it ....but I have just a couple of more questions ...... I went to your website and you had what appears to be two different Bouzoukis. I know that you explained the celtic mandolin was full scale but when I looked at your website it said the celtic mandolin had a 20 1/8" Scale neck and the Bouzouki had a 26 3/8" neck scale? So I'm trying to ask questions this time. Now that I've mentioned it...... how wide is the neck up by the nut?
The neck width at the nut is 1.25" for both the bouzouki and the octave mandolin...
So if there "is" a difference in neck lengths between the two....... are the two bouzoukis the same price?
Yes, both the Octave Mando and the Bouzouki are the same price...
Also, where are they made?
They are made in Korea.
and do they use ball end or loop end strings?
They use loop end strings...
Forgive me, but I've been a musician all my life and have a lot of instruments and I have always "held" an instrument before I bought it.... this is very different for me! I'm trying to think of everything I need to ask so I'm not e-mailing back and forth driving you crazy! I guess thats all. I hope I haven't been a pain in the "arse" as they say..... I just want to be sure before I purchase! Pat Liston
Not a problem Pat...You may ask all the questions you like...Sometimes, I'm able to get back to you with answers quickly, and other times, due to time constraints, I'm not. I do appreciate your patience concerning the lapse between questions.
Let me know if I can assist you further...Mickey Cochran
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999
I am an avid amateur musician. I am in the market for traditional Irish instruments. I have been looking for a cittern for many years, but they just don't show up in North Carolina. I haven't seen any on the internet either. At any rate, it occurs to me that I will probably have to purchase either a bouzouki or an octave mandolin. My dilemma is "what is the difference?". I own and play an old bowl back mandolin and I have briefly played with a friend's Greek bouzouki. But, I have never seen an octave mandolin up close. It seems that most big name Irish bands play either cittern or bouzouki, if anything. How do I decide?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide. Bob Sheehan PS I just ordered your catalog from your web site. BS
Hello...These are valid questions....it would really depend on a few factors...such as, the fact that you already play mandolin. If so, your best choice is the Octave mando since the tuning is the same other than being one octave lower. Whereas, if you do not currently play mandolin, the bouzouki would also make a good choice...in this case, it would be a matter of personal preference or a matter of fitting in with a particular band sound.
In my opinion, you'll find the Octave mando far easier to make the jump to than a bouzouki. You can also achieve many of the same characteristic sounds similar to a bouzouki without have to learn a completely new fingerboard.
Let me know if you have any further questions or if I can assist you with anything else...Mickey Cochran
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